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Decado
09-10-2005, 01:55 AM
Well, i'm building a system for a buddy of mine and i think the rainbow soundline components would be a good choice for his price range. Now i am wondering, would it be worth it to go for the 05 line or should he just go for the 02 on speedsound.com. And also, is it worth it to upgrade to the 365 components or should i just stick to the 265s, and what is the difference between the the kick version and the non kick version of the 265 and 365? Thanks in advance for any help.

Raven
09-11-2005, 01:11 AM
Not a clue between all of it!

Actually, Rainbow said that the sound difference between the 02 and the 05 is pretty neglegible. Not saying they sound the same, just not very different. I would figure more effort was put into power handling and durability, hence the higher power handling.

The difference between the 265 and the 365 is the 365 has dedicated drivers for midbass and midrange. I know this sounds like I'm stating the obvious, but it's the only difference. Unless you're really overdoing it, I'd sugguest the 265 for ease of install. The fewer drivers to install, the less of a chance of screwing something up.

The kick? Really, no idea.

cdj
09-11-2005, 03:32 PM
Simply put, the KickBass version uses a stiff suspension mid that gives more "kick" to the midbass. But it only plays down to 80Hz and so is designed to be used with a subwoofer.

If you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can send you the Rainbow "KickBass Forever" pdf brochure. It's no longer available on the Rainbow site.

:)

Decado
09-11-2005, 06:04 PM
Thanks guys, and cdj ygpm.

OlogyAudio
09-11-2005, 07:33 PM
Simply put, the KickBass version uses a stiff suspension mid that gives more "kick" to the midbass. But it only plays down to 80Hz and so is designed to be used with a subwoofer.

If you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can send you the Rainbow "KickBass Forever" pdf brochure. It's no longer available on the Rainbow site.

:)

You have a PM too... because that makes no sense and I want to read what they have to say lol...

Raven
09-11-2005, 08:20 PM
I would think it would have more to do with the driver's crossover itself. Maybe a built in one with a very high Q to give it a high raise in the 90-80hz range before hitting a steep dropoff. A very similar technology exists in the SSF on my Orion. It makes a huge difference.

cdj
09-11-2005, 09:01 PM
If it helps the discussion, this is from the Kick Bass Forever brochure:


The Rainbow Kick Bass has a membrane suspension consisting of two different centring blocs which, in turn, consist of two centrings. This centring package guarantees the constant long term stability of the membrane suspension. The deliberately hard suspension does not allow the reproduction of low frequencies but only optimum reproduction of the kick bass range.

They define the kick bass range as 80-180Hz.

OlogyAudio
09-12-2005, 12:18 AM
If it helps the discussion, this is from the Kick Bass Forever brochure:



They define the kick bass range as 80-180Hz.
It strikes me that someone that doesn't have an in depth understanding about how things work... Then wrote that...

Oh and it makes me cry that Rainbow Profis only have 4 mm of xmax... :)

.... and 2 spiders aren't going to make much of a difference when compared to one for such a low excursion driver... the main use of the extra spider is to center the coil during lots of excursion... help cut down on inter-modulation distortion and other high order products...

What bothers me is page 4 -- 'what makes kick bass different' -- well everything on it -- just blatently misleading... likely why the .pdf was pulled from their page? At least they correct people's mistakes :)

Semi-Auto
09-12-2005, 08:33 AM
Simply put, the KickBass version uses a stiff suspension mid that gives more "kick" to the midbass. But it only plays down to 80Hz and so is designed to be used with a subwoofer.

If you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can send you the Rainbow "KickBass Forever" pdf brochure. It's no longer available on the Rainbow site.

:)
I had a question but you preety much answerd it

Semi-Auto
09-12-2005, 08:38 AM
It strikes me that someone that doesn't have an in depth understanding about how things work... Then wrote that...

Oh and it makes me cry that Rainbow Profis only have 4 mm of xmax... :)

.... and 2 spiders aren't going to make much of a difference when compared to one for such a low excursion driver... the main use of the extra spider is to center the coil during lots of excursion... help cut down on inter-modulation distortion and other high order products...

What bothers me is page 4 -- 'what makes kick bass different' -- well everything on it -- just blatently misleading... likely why the .pdf was pulled from their page? At least they correct people's mistakes :)
Whats your issue with rainbow?
You always talking greasy
I gotta ask do you have yoru own line?

but about the bass like you state I have been hearing alot about the midbass is kind of weak seriously

Acsendant audio is coming out with a driver soon and it will have a 1 inch excursion

I gues you could use that driver and rainbow tweeter?
Is it at all possible to make things work by doing that?
I am found of elemental desighn 6 inch woofer and Res 8

wow a rainbow profi kickbass 2 way coponet setup but put a elemntal 6''
beside it

anybody think that would work?

3.5Max6spd
09-12-2005, 09:12 AM
Oh and it makes me cry that Rainbow Profis only have 4 mm of xmax... :)



Well you shouldn't cry, as xmax is not indicative of sound quality. But i see they target audience you are gunning for;)

Well, I'd say being the literature was translated from german- i can see if its plane jane for some. Perhaps the pdf was pulled from their page because it was from the old website, being it was from the old drivers. The current pdf's are available under the downloads and technical data links on their website. I dont see them trying to hide anything.



Whats your issue with rainbow?
You always talking greasy
I gotta ask do you have yoru own line?


you've answered your own question

Semi-Auto
09-12-2005, 09:52 AM
you've answered your own question
thats cool is the sq of his speaker comparable to the rainbow?


Well you shouldn't cry, as xmax is not indicative of sound quality. But i see they target audience you are gunning for;)

Like i said earlier i did hear the midbass was weak and i heard that from just about anybody that has rainbows but shouldnt the kick bass do a little better in the mids? and if that is not the case
could an elemental desighn 6'' be ran beside it for more lowend?

3.5Max6spd
09-12-2005, 10:47 AM
thats cool is the sq of his speaker comparable to the rainbow?



Like i said earlier i did hear the midbass was weak and i heard that from just about anybody that has rainbows but shouldnt the kick bass do a little better in the mids? and if that is not the case
could an elemental desighn 6'' be ran beside it for more lowend?

you heard the midbass was weak? running what? Rainbow Soundline standard mids are some of the more pronounced midbass range 2way drivers around comparing them to much more pricey sets. Kickbass is a step above that in the 80-220 range while maintaing superb midrange up to the 2500hz cxover point.

I'm running 8's for mids and would say the Rainbow Kickbass drivers are FAR from weak. They are comparable to the Focal K2p mids, Scanspeak Rev's in the usable midbass performance IMO- and people rave about those. But the Scan rev'sare not quite give you the same midrange clarity as the other two IMO. The standard midbass drivers are not 'weak' by any means- they are detailed, accurate, punchy...if you desire the more robust, exxagerated midbass punch out of the same size driver thats what the Kickbass is suited for. All these 'super' 6" subs out there people are bonering about (xxx, ed ) have unacceptable upper midrange capability and I even personally thought their midbass was weak IB.

Apparently people dont think too much about the things that make or break a particular drivers purpose in car (other than properly installing them) Like what rearstage (subs/power) are you trying to keep up with?Power? System Integration is key.
I say running a pair of 12's w/ 1kw+ rms....there aren't many 6.5's out there that would please me unless sealed and have the subs attenuated to hell to blend in.

I know people running the Ed 6's as subs, not midbass. Not quite the type of driver you want in a 2way application. There are lots of variables, application/integration included. IMO the more 'sub -like' performance you expect from your midbass, the closer you are leaning towards a 3way setup.

OlogyAudio
09-12-2005, 11:54 AM
you heard the midbass was weak? running what? Rainbow Soundline standard mids are some of the more pronounced midbass range 2way drivers around comparing them to much more pricey sets. Kickbass is a step above that in the 80-220 range while maintaing superb midrange up to the 2500hz cxover point.

I'm running 8's for mids and would say the Rainbow Kickbass drivers are FAR from weak. They are comparable to the Focal K2p mids, Scanspeak Rev's in the usable midbass performance IMO- and people rave about those. But the Scan rev'sare not quite give you the same midrange clarity as the other two IMO. The standard midbass drivers are not 'weak' by any means- they are detailed, accurate, punchy...if you desire the more robust, exxagerated midbass punch out of the same size driver thats what the Kickbass is suited for. All these 'super' 6" subs out there people are bonering about (xxx, ed ) have unacceptable upper midrange capability and I even personally thought their midbass was weak IB.

Apparently people dont think too much about the things that make or break a particular drivers purpose in car (other than properly installing them) Like what rearstage (subs/power) are you trying to keep up with?Power? System Integration is key.
I say running a pair of 12's w/ 1kw+ rms....there aren't many 6.5's out there that would please me unless sealed and have the subs attenuated to hell to blend in.

I know people running the Ed 6's as subs, not midbass. Not quite the type of driver you want in a 2way application. There are lots of variables, application/integration included. IMO the more 'sub -like' performance you expect from your midbass, the closer you are leaning towards a 3way setup.

2x for most of that :)
Chad's super midwoofer in the CF variety... seems promising though... I'm expecting to see great midrange clarity to atleast 1.5khz with that sucker... Perfect match for a hella expensive seas tweeter if you ask me :) -- not so much any rainbow tweeter (except the one they use in the ref. sets... the one they use in the platinum sets isn't too shabby but I do believe it only has .5mm p-p travel (not bad for a tweeter rly -- but... 1mm would do the trick... -- anywho the .5 limits dynamics with a xover point that low)

Which gets me to another topic -- while low xmax drivers can have very exceptional midbass quality -- the xmax ultimately limits the quantity of the high quality midbass in the say 150hz and under range

Additionally some of those errors in the paper could have just been translation problems... but that graph on p4 was still misleading no matter how you look at it... I love marketing... -- I still think that is why it was pulled -- some higherups realized whoever wrote it screwed up -- and they didn't want to mislead anyone... That is my guess -- and I'm hoping thats why they pulled it... More honorable if this is the case :)

As for my sets competing with rainbow in terms of quality -- that IS the idea.

Already have a review which asserts me as better for the price than ED or CDT HD by a wide margin -- just need something comparing CDT's high end with my mid end... and Rainbows of various prices with my sets as well (coming as soon as Blue gets his)

Decado
09-12-2005, 02:49 PM
Sweet thx for the help guys, and ology, sorry I can't get my buddy to buy yours, but it's just out of his price range :crap: .

OlogyAudio
09-12-2005, 03:01 PM
Sweet thx for the help guys, and ology, sorry I can't get my buddy to buy yours, but it's just out of his price range :crap: .

k tats coo -- you have a pm btw

Semi-Auto
09-13-2005, 01:51 AM
you heard the midbass was weak? running what? Rainbow Soundline standard mids are some of the more pronounced midbass range 2way drivers around comparing them to much more pricey sets. Kickbass is a step above that in the 80-220 range while maintaing superb midrange up to the 2500hz cxover point.



I want the Profi Vanadium Kick Bass Coponets.
A member of this board I beleave had the SCL Rainbows If i rember correctly. He did say that it could be his car, But I took with a grain of salt as I heard plenty of weak midbass from Rainbow drivers

I havent heard anything about these kick bass so if these are a step above then Im sure this is the choice.



The standard midbass drivers are not 'weak' by any means- they are detailed, accurate, punchy...if you desire the more robust, exagerated midbass punch out of the same size driver thats what the Kickbass is suited for.

What do you mean Robust Exageration? are you speaking of coloration?
I would prefer to stay away from coloration as I went out and bought an
ppi a.600 White art series amp

so are you saying the Profi V is more True sound then the Profi V Kick Bass driver?




Apparently people dont think too much about the things that make or break a particular drivers purpose in car (other than properly installing them) Like what rearstage (subs/power) are you trying to keep up with?Power? System Integration is key.
I say running a pair of 12's w/ 1kw+ rms....there aren't many 6.5's out there that would please me unless sealed and have the subs attenuated to hell to blend in.


I Have two 15'' Avalanches Ported 5 or 7 cube undecided but will be 28hz
2 1000/1 or C2k.9, {{can You show me arc audio site I heard hes The Z in zapco}
No rear fill(Just the 2 Holes)
Eclipse 8445
PPi Art a.600 Amp

I need to keep up with the 15'' avalanches but have the clearest of clarity



I know people running the Ed 6's as subs, not midbass. Not quite the type of driver you want in a 2way application. There are lots of variables, application/integration included. IMO the more 'sub -like' performance you expect from your midbass, the closer you are leaning towards a 3way setup.
(1) I was thinking get the 2 way Rainbow Profi V Kick Bass
and stick the 6 inch ED Sub as the lowend Mid Bass
and make it a 3 way setup.

(2) Or do you feel the 3 way Rainbow setup would be a better choice

(3)or is a 3 way setup even nessary or if the kick bass is even nessary

3.5Max6spd
09-13-2005, 10:39 AM
I want the Profi Vanadium Kick Bass Coponets.
A member of this board I beleave had the SCL Rainbows If i rember correctly. He did say that it could be his car, But I took with a grain of salt as I heard plenty of weak midbass from Rainbow drivers

I havent heard anything about these kick bass so if these are a step above then Im sure this is the choice.




What do you mean Robust Exageration? are you speaking of coloration?
I would prefer to stay away from coloration as I went out and bought an
ppi a.600 White art series amp

so are you saying the Profi V is more True sound then the Profi V Kick Bass driver?






I Have two 15'' Avalanches Ported 5 or 7 cube undecided but will be 28hz
2 1000/1 or C2k.9, {{can You show me arc audio site I heard hes The Z in zapco}
No rear fill(Just the 2 Holes)
Eclipse 8445
PPi Art a.600 Amp

I need to keep up with the 15'' avalanches but have the clearest of clarity



(1) I was thinking get the 2 way Rainbow Profi V Kick Bass
and stick the 6 inch ED Sub as the lowend Mid Bass
and make it a 3 way setup.

(2) Or do you feel the 3 way Rainbow setup would be a better choice

(3)or is a 3 way setup even nessary or if the kick bass is even nessary

I think if you have the amplifier chs and xover frlexibility to go active, get the midbass driver YOU want if going 3way- cant really go wrong with any driver playing that small range of freq IMO- thats the prob w/ 2ways- the mid has to do too much work(covering that large freq range) and ends up sacrificing areas.

By robust, i mean you will get more output or at least hear it more pronounced- not so much coloration, but a plus for 30degree off axis response- in a door, more output at that angle you will hear it more. Now if you are going to aim them with some fab work- any standard Rainbow mid will kick you in the chest plenty.

OlogyAudio
09-13-2005, 12:55 PM
I want the Profi Vanadium Kick Bass Coponets.
A member of this board I beleave had the SCL Rainbows If i rember correctly. He did say that it could be his car, But I took with a grain of salt as I heard plenty of weak midbass from Rainbow drivers

I havent heard anything about these kick bass so if these are a step above then Im sure this is the choice.




What do you mean Robust Exageration? are you speaking of coloration?
I would prefer to stay away from coloration as I went out and bought an
ppi a.600 White art series amp

so are you saying the Profi V is more True sound then the Profi V Kick Bass driver?




I Have two 15'' Avalanches Ported 5 or 7 cube undecided but will be 28hz
2 1000/1 or C2k.9, {{can You show me arc audio site I heard hes The Z in zapco}
No rear fill(Just the 2 Holes)
Eclipse 8445
PPi Art a.600 Amp

I need to keep up with the 15'' avalanches but have the clearest of clarity



(1) I was thinking get the 2 way Rainbow Profi V Kick Bass
and stick the 6 inch ED Sub as the lowend Mid Bass
and make it a 3 way setup.

(2) Or do you feel the 3 way Rainbow setup would be a better choice

(3)or is a 3 way setup even nessary or if the kick bass is even nessary


Looks like custom is the way to go if you ask me...

acousticguitar
09-13-2005, 03:51 PM
custom is cool, but i would only go custom with an active setup personally.

as for the rainbows, the mids are definitely strong enough. even below 150, i find them sometimes overpowering. there's a reason a lot of SQ comps in Europe are won by ppl with the SLC line. (yes, the SLC line!)

Semi-Auto
09-14-2005, 02:33 AM
Looks like custom is the way to go if you ask me...
what is custom and what is active you have to bare with me I spent months reserching subs and amps now its tim eto get speakers and i havnt leanrd squat yet

im also afraid of the dealers/installers would know ho wto instal rainbows correctly

acousticguitar
09-14-2005, 03:26 PM
Custom is buying speakers without crossovers from companies that do not market publicly. its the OEM manufacturers often behind the big names. (e.g., morel makes the Alpine Type X's) the problem w/ active is this: its a LOT of work... and it will cost you even more to get an installer who would do it right as there are a lot of snags that can happen if your installer has a bad day, *****, etc. Which is why companies sell components.

In your case, I would get a component set. If you aren't doing it yourself and unless you are prepared to shell out a LOT of money for install, get a component set. There are so many good component sets out there that its not even funny anymore.

OlogyAudio
09-14-2005, 03:39 PM
Custom is buying speakers without crossovers from companies that do not market publicly. its the OEM manufacturers often behind the big names. (e.g., morel makes the Alpine Type X's) the problem w/ active is this: its a LOT of work... and it will cost you even more to get an installer who would do it right as there are a lot of snags that can happen if your installer has a bad day, *****, etc. Which is why companies sell components.

In your case, I would get a component set. If you aren't doing it yourself and unless you are prepared to shell out a LOT of money for install, get a component set. There are so many good component sets out there that its not even funny anymore.

DST does Alpine :) -- anywho...

A custom passive is a good alternative... tons of amps and EQ and lots of setup time are not needed... PM me if you want some more info about this.

But you are still going to want to install things yourself... regardless of the direction you go... Average installers screw up like the rest of us... and awesome installers will run you ~$90/hour... or more

acousticguitar
09-14-2005, 04:39 PM
Not the Type X's IIRC.

Good installers do cost.. probably not $90 unless you want someone like scott buwalda. I got one of the best installers in CA to do my stuff at $75/hr.

OlogyAudio
09-14-2005, 06:40 PM
Not the Type X's IIRC.

Good installers do cost.. probably not $90 unless you want someone like scott buwalda. I got one of the best installers in CA to do my stuff at $75/hr.

The Type X low end ones are crappy versions of the Vifa XT wood pulp drivers... just a great deal lower quality... -- Cone is good -- motor is well... not nearly so hot...

The Type X F#1 status are Scan Speak drivers :)

Yea you can find good installers at ~$70/hr -- but they like to charge more when working with fiberglass for some reason... Don't blame them rly...

lotas
09-14-2005, 06:59 PM
The Type X F#1 status are Scan Speak drivers :)




Yes siree bobber...Revelators I believe.