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View Full Version : good 4" mids?



iceteebone
07-25-2005, 03:06 PM
need some suggestions on some 4" mids that can handle 75 watts rms and are 4 ohms. not looking for anything bigger just 4's. i was thinking of some kicker resolution mids.

bigwheel15
07-25-2005, 03:22 PM
Maybe a set of cdt cl-41's. Or just the mid, cl-4's.

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 03:26 PM
Maybe a set of cdt cl-41's. Or just the mid, cl-4's.


i kinda just wanted the mids because i would use my boston acoustic tweeters and get a set of 4" mids to fit my door, and run an active system. i'll look into the cdt's

Kali77
07-25-2005, 03:29 PM
I don't know if you can fit 4.5" mids but if so these are worth taking a look at ;)

http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3587780.15564&pid=984

Kali

squeak9798
07-25-2005, 03:30 PM
www.partsexpress.com
www.speakercity.com
www.zalytron.com
www.meniscusaudio.com
www.creativesound.ca
www.madisound.com

Kali77
07-25-2005, 03:39 PM
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3587780.15564&pid=1707
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=3587780.15564&pid=1367

And you can find some good reviews over at diymobileaudio.com

Kali

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 04:22 PM
well i just bought some kicker resolution mids because they were only 30 bucks. what whould i set the high pass at on those mids? and what about the tweeters?

Kali77
07-25-2005, 04:30 PM
well i just bought some kicker resolution mids because they were only 30 bucks. what whould i set the high pass at on those mids? and what about the tweeters?

Do you have dedicated midbass? Where are they crossed over if so? What tweets do you have? Post there specs. Put a link up with the Kicker specs. It is going to be subjective though. Crossover points and such are going to vary from car to car. However there are some general starting points.

Kali

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 04:34 PM
Do you have dedicated midbass? Where are they crossed over if so? What tweets do you have? Post there specs. Put a link up with the Kicker specs. It is going to be subjective though. Crossover points and such are going to vary from car to car. However there are some general starting points.

Kali


i don't have a dedicated midbass yet, but i just wanted to know what a 4" mid would play down too. i listen to rap and from using numerous mids i get the feeling there is no midbass so i'm not really wasting my time with it.

3.5Max6spd
07-25-2005, 05:16 PM
i just heard some morel mw266 4" and 4ohm version in an ECA members car in yesterday's NE meet - very nice, but i cant see myself running such a small driver lower than 100hz- 4's are more of a dedicated midrange category
you can check those on madisound

OlogyAudio
07-25-2005, 05:22 PM
It depends on the mid -- some will take a 150hz 4th order highpass and be more than happy -- a rare few will take 80...... most I wouldn't use under 300hz if you have a nice midbass....... I typically put the xover point on a 3 way inbetween 300hz-1.2khz depending on the drivers being used....

Kali77
07-25-2005, 05:24 PM
I don't think I would personally run a 4" driver as full range. I would think you would be much happier running a midbass driver to like 200-250hz maybe higher depending on the driver, and then having the midrange pick it up from there and see how things sound. I have not looked at the specs on the kicker so I don't know there optimal frequency range. I am pretty sure it is not meant to be a full range driver.

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 06:01 PM
see what i wanted tp do is bandpass the 4" mid. say 150 hz. to 1khz. then have my tweeters play 1 khz and up. i'm not an audiophile and i just want my music loud and clear. i'm not sure where to begin to set my xovers. i'll adjust them probably to my liking but i want to know a good starting point. i cannot fit a bigger mid in my door so that's out of the question. i may put some dedicated mids in the rear but i'm not sure how that would sound as i'm not a fan of rear fill.

Kali77
07-25-2005, 06:18 PM
see what i wanted tp do is bandpass the 4" mid. say 150 hz. to 1khz. then have my tweeters play 1 khz and up. i'm not an audiophile and i just want my music loud and clear. i'm not sure where to begin to set my xovers. i'll adjust them probably to my liking but i want to know a good starting point. i cannot fit a bigger mid in my door so that's out of the question. i may put some dedicated mids in the rear but i'm not sure how that would sound as i'm not a fan of rear fill.

Well give it a try. Maybe the 4" mid will be fine at 150hz. One way to find out :)

squeak9798
07-25-2005, 07:29 PM
see what i wanted tp do is bandpass the 4" mid. say 150 hz. to 1khz. then have my tweeters play 1 khz and up. i'm not an audiophile and i just want my music loud and clear. i'm not sure where to begin to set my xovers. i'll adjust them probably to my liking but i want to know a good starting point. i cannot fit a bigger mid in my door so that's out of the question. i may put some dedicated mids in the rear but i'm not sure how that would sound as i'm not a fan of rear fill.

Just an FYI: chances are good you'll need to lowpass them higher than 1khz. Not many tweeters can handle such a low xover point.....1500hz is pretty "rare" for a tweeter. Most (not all, but most) will like 2khz or higher at the lowest. Some may not even like 2500hz as an xover point.......just depend on the tweeter. But I seriously doubt you'd find a tweeter that would really enjoy or work well with a 1khz highpass; or atleast you wouldn't be able to crank it with that low of an xover point without major distortion/damage. A "general" rule of thumb for tweeter highpass frequency is atleast twice it's Fs. Mind you, this is dependent upon slope, etc.....but it's a good starting point and should give you a reference of generally what a good xover point for the tweet would be.


IMHO I'd start out trying the 4's @ ~300hz highpass with the slope as steep as possible, and gradually drop the xover point (with the volume at your loudest typical listening level) till you hear the 4" start to stress. Then whatever suits your needs for the lowpass...probably in the 2-2.5khz region.

I skimmed most of the thread....but did I read you have no real plans for a midbass? Yeah.....after re-reading; you definitely would not be wasting your time with a midbass even though you listen to rap. Hell; with rap the majority of the "bass" is actually in the midbass region :p: I remember that popular song by Drama about 5 years back (can't think of the name).....that song had tons of midbass content.

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 07:43 PM
Just an FYI: chances are good you'll need to lowpass them higher than 1khz. Not many tweeters can handle such a low xover point.....1500hz is pretty "rare" for a tweeter. Most (not all, but most) will like 2khz or higher at the lowest. Some may not even like 2500hz as an xover point.......just depend on the tweeter. But I seriously doubt you'd find a tweeter that would really enjoy or work well with a 1khz highpass; or atleast you wouldn't be able to crank it with that low of an xover point without major distortion/damage. A "general" rule of thumb for tweeter highpass frequency is atleast twice it's Fs. Mind you, this is dependent upon slope, etc.....but it's a good starting point and should give you a reference of generally what a good xover point for the tweet would be.


IMHO I'd start out trying the 4's @ ~300hz highpass with the slope as steep as possible, and gradually drop the xover point (with the volume at your loudest typical listening level) till you hear the 4" start to stress. Then whatever suits your needs for the lowpass...probably in the 2-2.5khz region.

I skimmed most of the thread....but did I read you have no real plans for a midbass? Yeah.....after re-reading; you definitely would not be wasting your time with a midbass even though you listen to rap. Hell; with rap the majority of the "bass" is actually in the midbass region :p: I remember that popular song by Drama about 5 years back (can't think of the name).....that song had tons of midbass content.


that's basically what i was asking was where to start to crossover the tweeter because i had no clue. i'll listen to the 4's and tweets and see if i need some midbass or not. would it sound bad if i put some 6.5 dedicated mids in the rear deck?

squeak9798
07-25-2005, 07:44 PM
would it sound bad if i put some 6.5 dedicated mids in the rear deck?

Yes ;)

You do not want your "main" midbass drivers behind you.

Drop some 6.5" midbass in your doors, and put the 4's and tweets in kicks :)

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 07:46 PM
Yes ;)

You do not want your "main" midbass drivers behind you.

Drop some 6.5" midbass in your doors, and put the 4's and tweets in kicks :)


the moding i would have to do to drop 6.5's in my doors wouldn't be worth it. plus my fiberglass skills aren't that great and my kicks will ****.

OlogyAudio
07-25-2005, 07:52 PM
Just an FYI: chances are good you'll need to lowpass them higher than 1khz. Not many tweeters can handle such a low xover point.....1500hz is pretty "rare" for a tweeter. Most (not all, but most) will like 2khz or higher at the lowest. Some may not even like 2500hz as an xover point.......just depend on the tweeter. But I seriously doubt you'd find a tweeter that would really enjoy or work well with a 1khz highpass; or atleast you wouldn't be able to crank it with that low of an xover point without major distortion/damage. A "general" rule of thumb for tweeter highpass frequency is atleast twice it's Fs. Mind you, this is dependent upon slope, etc.....but it's a good starting point and should give you a reference of generally what a good xover point for the tweet would be.


IMHO I'd start out trying the 4's @ ~300hz highpass with the slope as steep as possible, and gradually drop the xover point (with the volume at your loudest typical listening level) till you hear the 4" start to stress. Then whatever suits your needs for the lowpass...probably in the 2-2.5khz region.

I skimmed most of the thread....but did I read you have no real plans for a midbass? Yeah.....after re-reading; you definitely would not be wasting your time with a midbass even though you listen to rap. Hell; with rap the majority of the "bass" is actually in the midbass region :p: I remember that popular song by Drama about 5 years back (can't think of the name).....that thing had tons of midbass output.


Squeak knows what he is talking about :) -- There are just a handful of tweeters that are very comfortable crossing under 2khz... and VERY few that can under 1.5khz... Dayton RS, seas millennium are the 2 that come to mind first... The lowest I would DARE to cross ethr of those would be 1.2khz and with that low of a xover point don't expect that much clean volume... It is worth it to have a nice 8" 2way monitor though... Seas L series 8" with a dayton RS or the $160 T25CF-002 (E011) Millennium... and with all honesty the millennium is hard to use under 1.5khz due to a drooping sensitivity... the dayton RS is flat to 1khz... but even it with nearly 3mm of excursion is starting to suffer from THD... There are some ribbons that will xover fine at 1khz but... they aren't exactly suited for the car... not to mention they will break the bank...

If you can use a midbass and can use a 4.5” I say get the excel driver... If you can use a 4.5”er and can't use a midbass I would suggest checking out http://www.creativesound.ca/ -- the extended range has reasonable response down to 80hz... I still wouldn't personally use it under 120hz though... If you have to use a 4” I don't know what to tell you... Morel? A lot of these drivers are 8 ohms btw... so you will need a robust amp to use them to their full potential...

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 08:01 PM
Squeak knows what he is talking about :) -- There are just a handful of tweeters that are very comfortable crossing under 2khz... and VERY few that can under 1.5khz... Dayton RS, seas millennium are the 2 that come to mind first... The lowest I would DARE to cross ethr of those would be 1.2khz and with that low of a xover point don't expect that much clean volume... It is worth it to have a nice 8" 2way monitor though... Seas L series 8" with a dayton RS or the $160 T25CF-002 (E011) Millennium... and with all honesty the millennium is hard to use under 1.5khz due to a drooping sensitivity... the dayton RS is flat to 1khz... but even it with nearly 3mm of excursion is starting to suffer from THD... There are some ribbons that will xover fine at 1khz but... they aren't exactly suited for the car... not to mention they will break the bank...

If you can use a midbass and can use a 4.5” I say get the excel driver... If you can use a 4.5”er and can't use a midbass I would suggest checking out http://www.creativesound.ca/ -- the extended range has reasonable response down to 80hz... I still wouldn't personally use it under 120hz though... If you have to use a 4” I don't know what to tell you... Morel? A lot of these drivers are 8 ohms btw... so you will need a robust amp to use them to their full potential...


i won't cross the tweeters over at 1khz. that's what i was trying to ask, and i threw those numbers out there because i didn't know. i already got the kickers. for $30 it's worth giving them a try.

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 08:17 PM
also is it possible to run 2 tweeters, 2 midranges, and 2 midbass off a 4-channel amp?

squeak9798
07-25-2005, 09:00 PM
also is it possible to run 2 tweeters, 2 midranges, and 2 midbass off a 4-channel amp?

Passive; yes. Active; nope. For an active setup, you need one channel per speaker. You could build your own passive network (even if it's only for the midrange/tweeter crossover; then you could run the tweeter/mid on the same channels and actively highpass the midrange only [tweet would by highpassed via the passive, and the midrange would be lowpassed via the passive], then use the other two channels to actively bandpass the midbass)

iceteebone
07-25-2005, 09:13 PM
Passive; yes. Active; nope. For an active setup, you need one channel per speaker. You could build your own passive network (even if it's only for the midrange/tweeter crossover; then you could run the tweeter/mid on the same channels and actively highpass the midrange only [tweet would by highpassed via the passive, and the midrange would be lowpassed via the passive], then use the other two channels to actively bandpass the midbass)


so i would pretty much run the 4" and tweets like a set of components and bandpass the mids? also would building an enclosure to house 2 8" midbass in the center console area, up under the bash be a bad idea? the doors are out of the question for the mids, just the 4's. also should i then mount the tweeters in the door or in the a-pillar?

OlogyAudio
07-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Passive; yes. Active; nope. For an active setup, you need one channel per speaker. You could build your own passive network (even if it's only for the midrange/tweeter crossover; then you could run the tweeter/mid on the same channels and actively highpass the midrange only [tweet would by highpassed via the passive, and the midrange would be lowpassed via the passive], then use the other two channels to actively bandpass the midbass)

x2

Again what model Peerless drivers are these? want to point me to a link and I can give you some advice?