PDA

View Full Version : expensive mids



95Prober
06-12-2005, 10:23 AM
well, i believe these are the top of the line from Boston Acoustics, but pricey!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32819&item=5780103184&rd=1

are they really worth thinking about ? i mean how would they compare vs. the RE XXX MIDS?? i mean, XXX MIDs vs. Boston Mids WITHOUT tweeters?

also, they say 3ohms > does that mean a 4 ohm load is ok on them?

and the power rating says up to 400 watts. does that mean they are 400 rms speakers? it doesnt say on their website

any input/info? thx

Mackenzie
06-12-2005, 10:42 AM
Go with the bostons, and dont even think twice about it. They are 3 ohms, but most all multi channel amps are 2 ohm stable, so you shouldnt have to worry about anything.

95Prober
06-12-2005, 11:03 AM
Go with the bostons, and dont even think twice about it. They are 3 ohms, but most all multi channel amps are 2 ohm stable, so you shouldnt have to worry about anything.

but can u put a 2 ohm load on a 3 ohm load? arent you ONLY supposed to go higher or equal than what it says?

jlaine
06-12-2005, 11:16 AM
well, i believe these are the top of the line from Boston Acoustics, but pricey!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=32819&item=5780103184&rd=1

are they really worth thinking about ? i mean how would they compare vs. the RE XXX MIDS?? i mean, XXX MIDs vs. Boston Mids WITHOUT tweeters?

also, they say 3ohms > does that mean a 4 ohm load is ok on them?

and the power rating says up to 400 watts. does that mean they are 400 rms speakers? it doesnt say on their website

any input/info? thx

Considering the XXX mids will have probably twice the linear displacement, give you a 2 ohm load off the bat, and won't even come close to that price (after buying the mids, you have what? another $300 to spend on tweeters? - that's one **** nice set of tweeters) - I can't think of much of a reason to go with the Boston set other than they are already a set.

Boston (well, when buying from an authorized dealer from their store) has one of the best return policies on the planet - that would be part of the reason they are so expensive. You pop them for any reason, I've never seen a dealer so much as question it, they just replace it on the spot.

bonesninja
06-12-2005, 11:20 AM
i know where someone could get an awesome set of CDT CL-641's 3 way comps for a WAY better price then those boston's.

95Prober
06-12-2005, 11:26 AM
Considering the XXX mids will have probably twice the linear displacement, give you a 2 ohm load off the bat, and won't even come close to that price (after buying the mids, you have what? another $300 to spend on tweeters? - that's one **** nice set of tweeters) - I can't think of much of a reason to go with the Boston set other than they are already a set.

Boston (well, when buying from an authorized dealer from their store) has one of the best return policies on the planet - that would be part of the reason they are so expensive. You pop them for any reason, I've never seen a dealer so much as question it, they just replace it on the spot.

well actually i wasnt planning to get those exactly, just as a comparison between the RE XXX. like which is better of the 2 ?? if i DID want those, i'd just look on ebay or something from a private dealer or on the forums. plus these are retail like over 500$ and up. they must be awesom , no?

its just i heard so much about Boston's and these seem to be their best i assume?? i know the RE XXX can run at 2 ohms and i think are more powerful, but what about their sound quality ON THEIR OWN?

squeak9798
06-12-2005, 12:32 PM
Considering the XXX mids will have probably twice the linear displacement, give you a 2 ohm load off the bat, and won't even come close to that price (after buying the mids, you have what? another $300 to spend on tweeters? - that's one **** nice set of tweeters)


You are forgetting about the $100+ you'll have to spend on an active crossover, plus the necessity of needing 2 more channels of amplification compared to those Boston's, plus the extra RCA's/speaker/Power/Ground wire, and possibly a relay for the REM wire, that would be needed.

Not saying you are wrong....but after all the nickel-n-dime'ing that happens....the final price could easily come out pretty comparably unless you went super cheap (with like LPG tweets and Profile amps, for example). And even then, you are relying on the person installing them to have enough knowledge and training to be able to properly setup an active setup for the best performance.

Yes, you CAN build a passive for the XXX mids....but majority of people don't have 1) the knowledge level to build a GOOD passive crossover, or 2) the proper equipment to actually design a good passive crossover.

IIRC Madisound charges around $100 to design a pair, but then you'd also have the excess $$ involved with the extra shipping to and from them, etc etc....but I'm honestly not sure if that $100 is only for the design process, or if it is actually for the construction and includes parts/labor/etc as I've personally never had them do it.




Back to the original question.....those Boston's sound very nice IMHO. I haven't heard the XXX mids to compare....but, like Jlaine said, the XXX mids have 2x the linear displacement, so they should spank them in midbass output and reap the benefits of using a smaller percentage of their excursion for a given output level.

jsloan10
06-12-2005, 12:40 PM
but can u put a 2 ohm load on a 3 ohm load? arent you ONLY supposed to go higher or equal than what it says?

Don't worry about it, all quality amps are at least 2ohm stable in stereo mode and will work with speakers rated from 2ohms to 16+ohms.

hello
06-12-2005, 12:45 PM
If budget is not in your minds try these.

http://www.audiotec-fischer.com/
Brax Graphic pro :up2somet:
It can pounds some dyna mkII

jlaine
06-12-2005, 03:47 PM
You are forgetting about the $100+ you'll have to spend on an active crossover, plus the necessity of needing 2 more channels of amplification compared to those Boston's, plus the extra RCA's/speaker/Power/Ground wire, and possibly a relay for the REM wire, that would be needed.

Not saying you are wrong....but after all the nickel-n-dime'ing that happens....the final price could easily come out pretty comparably unless you went super cheap (with like LPG tweets and Profile amps, for example). And even then, you are relying on the person installing them to have enough knowledge and training to be able to properly setup an active setup for the best performance.

Yes, you CAN build a passive for the XXX mids....but majority of people don't have 1) the knowledge level to build a GOOD passive crossover, or 2) the proper equipment to actually design a good passive crossover.

IIRC Madisound charges around $100 to design a pair, but then you'd also have the excess $$ involved with the extra shipping to and from them, etc etc....but I'm honestly not sure if that $100 is only for the design process, or if it is actually for the construction and includes parts/labor/etc as I've personally never had them do it.




Back to the original question.....those Boston's sound very nice IMHO. I haven't heard the XXX mids to compare....but, like Jlaine said, the XXX mids have 2x the linear displacement, so they should spank them in midbass output and reap the benefits of using a smaller percentage of their excursion for a given output level.

Active crossover onboard amp = free. 4 channel x 50 watt amp = cheap.

100 x 2 on 2 ohm midbass, 50x2 for 4 ohm tweeters.

Trying to make it sound harder than it is, KISS.

1. Only have 2 channel amp? Sell it and get a 4 channel.
2. Have no amp? Needed to get one anyway.
3. Passives? Meh, 90% of the amps out today will do 2 way active without breaking a sweat. (as will a lot of the head units out today.)
4. Install? No worse than using passives, you still need to do the footwork - you won't be saved buying a premade set.
5. Active is not really harder than passive - set a crossover point after doing some general listening then start finding a location that sounds good. Only thing passive saves you is setting the crossover point, you are denied that added flexibility.

jacko
06-12-2005, 03:51 PM
Active crossover on amp? I've never seen an amp that crossed over from 100hz to 1000-1300khz, with the second set being High pass at 13000khz. if there is one it's not "cheap". #2, if he's building an SQ system, he's not going to want that big of a power difference.

Edit: yes i know there are 4 channels with that kind of crossover setup, but not his definition of "cheap" as stated in the post above this.

jlaine
06-12-2005, 03:53 PM
Active crossover on amp? I've never seen an amp that crossed over from 100hz to 1000-1300khz. #2, if he's building an SQ system, he's not going to want that big of a power difference.

1. I have - start looking around - I run amps that do 3 way active if you want them to.
2. Yes he is, the efficiency difference between the tweeter and the midbass will be big - not to mention he'll only use 10w on the tweeters and probably 50-100 on the midbass for starters - level setting is an amazing thing.

jacko
06-12-2005, 03:55 PM
i give up.

jlaine
06-12-2005, 04:00 PM
i give up... where are you sqeak?

Give up?
I fail to see why you need backup - are you trying to turn something simple into an argument?

I'm attempting to explain to you why this will work - why are you ignoring the facts presented and instead digging yourself in for a war? It makes no sense.

jacko
06-12-2005, 04:18 PM
i know but to find an amp that will crossover like that is about equal to getting a seperate active crossover, isn't it? oh the thing with the watts, forgot about the gain knobs, sorry.

jlaine
06-12-2005, 04:45 PM
i know but to find an amp that will crossover like that is about equal to getting a seperate active crossover, isn't it? oh the thing with the watts, forgot about the gain knobs, sorry.

Not really... The a/d/s p450's would do it, and ikesound was clearing those out for 150... They would only give you 75x2 at two ohm, but still...

a/d/s, JL's slash units, Orions 4 channels, PPI's 4 channels, Directed's 4 channels are just a few that I found with minimal digging, I know there are more out there, but you should at least be able to expect decent quality out of all of those listed above. :) And a lot of decks out today will do it onboard, so that just adds to the capabilities already available if you get a deck that gives you that kind of control.

squeak9798
06-12-2005, 06:57 PM
Trying to make it sound harder than it is, KISS.



Blah.....who does things the easy way? :crazy:

:p:

T3mpest
06-13-2005, 01:42 AM
I like the midrange on the bostons, it was really clear, maybe I just like the sound. Seems like most of the people on here are more "bass heavy" than me, so maybe the XXX are the better choice for the majority. Heck, I'd just do a 3 way, screw KISS.

95Prober
06-13-2005, 04:32 AM
well guys, give me ur input. just made a possible purchase for 200$ u.s INCLUDING shipping for this brand new 3 - way CDT-CL-641 set.
they 100 rms per side BUT i really dont need the 4", but i think i cant run the speakers without ALL speakers connected since they are 3-way. i just want to try the tweets/6.5, but i think i cant. is this true? any opinions??

http://img216.echo.cx/img216/5805/cdttt2mn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)



http://www.cdtaudio.com/classic2000MidDriv.htm

http://www.audio-n-more.com/thestore/prods/CL-641.html

audiolife
06-13-2005, 07:19 AM
looks like a 2 way xover

cappy72
06-13-2005, 08:25 AM
agreed... that looks like a 2 way xover...

take a better pic of the xover, on your pic above there are 6 terminals on the crossover, I think there should be 8.

95Prober
06-13-2005, 10:52 AM
i didnt know. the model is "Satnet 642" i believe the person bought it ALL in one set NEW, so i dont know why there would be a wrong xover ?? also, if there are 6 inputs for wire, wouldnt that be correct coz 6 TOTAL leads PER each side ?? why do i need 8 ??????? thx!!http://img249.echo.cx/img249/4561/cdt110bz.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

squeak9798
06-13-2005, 11:15 AM
why do i need 8 ???????

Because each crossover needs an input. So, they should have 3 pairs of outputs and 1 pair of inputs per crossover

squeak9798
06-13-2005, 11:18 AM
Ok...look at the crossover in this picture of the CL-641 3-way set on CDT's webpage:

http://www.cdtaudio.com/cdt_new_0105/CL-641-05_lg.gif

Then look at your crossovers. They don't appear to be the same. Plus on the webpage is says they have the "ES/HD-300" crossover.

bonesninja
06-13-2005, 11:21 AM
looking at the picture , the crossover is for the midrange and the tweeters, not the midbass driver. $200 is still a sweet deal in my opinion. i think you could find someway to use midrange's man.

95Prober
06-13-2005, 11:21 AM
oh, i got it! so i need that EXTRA set of terminals for the input! i was thinking that pic looked odd too before. well since its a 2-way then, can i still run the 6.5/tweets with it and then run the 4" off an amp SEPERATELY ?? would that work?

squeak9798
06-13-2005, 11:25 AM
Not really, since then the 4" and 6.5" would both be playing the same frequencies. The whole purpose of a 3-way comp set is to allow the 4" to pick up the midrange frequencies and keep the 6.5" dedicated to midbass. But, if the amp's internal crossovers would bandpass the 4", then it would *technically* work, though still far from ideal.

bonesninja
06-13-2005, 11:29 AM
squeak, you think it would be better to run the tweet and midrange off the x-over and use the amp to x-over the midbass?

jacko
06-13-2005, 11:30 AM
sqeaks little voice-"no". unless for the 6.5" you crossover the sub sonic(assuming the amp has one) at around 80hz and the low pass at ~250hz, Then get a ~250hz bass blocker for the 4" after it's gone thru the crossover, and then leave the tweet ran off the crossover too. Not ideal, but it would work.

95Prober
06-13-2005, 11:50 AM
squeak, you think it would be better to run the tweet and midrange off the x-over and use the amp to x-over the midbass?

hey man, whats up? yeah before getting those, i just happened to stumble across this prob. Claire is AWESOME to deal with, youre right!

anyways, i seen this and i thought maybe there was a small problem coz some said that it was a 2-way xover. im not sure if she got ANOTHER pair of xovers with that set or not, but i assume not or she would have said. when u do to there site, there is INDEED another xover in that set (sub/mid xover) along with this one ( tweet/mid) i hope i can get around this. that set looks great to me :)

hopefully squeak can give an idea

bonesninja
06-13-2005, 12:01 PM
yeah man, i don't think she would intentionally leave that out. maybe it was an oversight by CDT. looking at the pics i see the difference in the 2. i actually have an active crossover that i'm selling that might work to x-over the 6.5 if you were interested. i paid $100 for it 2 years ago but used it for about 1 month. specs can be found here.


http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/LiveImages/114/40/DocumentURL.pdf

you would have to ask one of the more technical ppl on here to see if that would work for you. $30 shipped. 16-CX25

95Prober
06-13-2005, 12:16 PM
yeah man, i don't think she would intentionally leave that out. maybe it was an oversight by CDT. looking at the pics i see the difference in the 2. i actually have an active crossover that i'm selling that might work to x-over the 6.5 if you were interested. i paid $100 for it 2 years ago but used it for about 1 month. specs can be found here.


http://www.memphiscaraudio.com/LiveImages/114/40/DocumentURL.pdf

you would have to ask one of the more technical ppl on here to see if that would work for you. $30 shipped. 16-CX25

yeah im SURE she wouldnt leave it either. maybe ill ask her . i believe she got 'em thru ebay, so maybe you never know what some stores try and put together as a set.

yeah, i was wondering about that too! if ANOTHER brand of xover would work? this is my first time for xovers , so im still learning about this stuff. i REALLY dont want to buy another brand without making sure it is proper. butif so, yours sound like a great deal!! maybe u can hold it for me until i check all this out.

hopefully someone here will know

squeak9798
06-13-2005, 12:54 PM
Who are you getting these from? Because IMHO it would be a lot easier if you could just get the 3-way xover for them. Maybe talk to CDT or the Zeb and find out if you can purchase just the xover. Or talk to the seller and find out why in the hell they don't have the 3-way xover for them.

Yes, you can make it work without them, but it'd be a bigger PITA.

95Prober
06-13-2005, 01:04 PM
Who are you getting these from? Because IMHO it would be a lot easier if you could just get the 3-way xover for them. Maybe talk to CDT or the Zeb and find out if you can purchase just the xover. Or talk to the seller and find out why in the hell they don't have the 3-way xover for them.

Yes, you can make it work without them, but it'd be a bigger PITA.

well a lady that i got introduced to has them up for sale, HOWEVER she got them previously NEW from ebay. now i think that may be the problem. maybe the ebay seller, didnt put them in the set, ONLY one pair. but i'd like to get them from her, coz they look mint plus she is a great person to deal with. so im trying my best to try and make this work out. AND since i live in canada and plus getting the CDT directly from the zeb, CDT, it would cost probably a good 100$. so thats why i was wondering if Bonesninja's xover might work???? he got a set for cheap!

bonesninja
06-13-2005, 02:06 PM
well a lady that i got introduced to has them up for sale, HOWEVER she got them previously NEW from ebay. now i think that may be the problem. maybe the ebay seller, didnt put them in the set, ONLY one pair. but i'd like to get them from her, coz they look mint plus she is a great person to deal with. so im trying my best to try and make this work out. AND since i live in canada and plus getting the CDT directly from the zeb, CDT, it would cost probably a good 100$. so thats why i was wondering if Bonesninja's xover might work???? he got a set for cheap!
Mine is an actual active crossover--not a pair of passive one's like the ones that came with the CDT's. this is not speaker specific but is adjustable to fit your needs.


http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-10/867781/DSC00501.JPG

95Prober
06-13-2005, 02:21 PM
whats the difference between the 2, active/passive? if i got this one, does that mean i dont need the CDT's OR must i use both together? thx

bonesninja
06-13-2005, 02:29 PM
better talk to one of the more technical types on here about that--my knowledge is somewhat limited in the area of crossovers. i'd hate to give you the wrong info.

MetalMaxima
06-13-2005, 02:36 PM
Guys, just to let you know, that seller will NOT be able to authenticate anything he sells online. He had some 3 Arc Audio 2500-XXKs awhile back, and REFUSED to answer any of my inquiries regarding the serial number for the amps.

That seller = teh shady

bonesninja
06-13-2005, 02:37 PM
Guys, just to let you know, that seller will NOT be able to authenticate anything he sells online. He had some 3 Arc Audio 2500-XXKs awhile back, and REFUSED to answer any of my inquiries regarding the serial number for the amps.

That seller = teh shadywho exactly are you referring to?

95Prober
06-13-2005, 02:38 PM
who are you talking about? ^^^

MetalMaxima
06-13-2005, 02:46 PM
who exactly are you referring to?

I was referring to IndoAudio, the eBay seller.

Sorry for the ambiguity. ;)

95Prober
06-13-2005, 02:49 PM
oh! well, i wasnt going to deal with them, just links!

adam71
06-14-2005, 04:33 PM
I don't know what your budget is but if you can afford one I would purchase a 3 way (active) x-over. Then you could crossover your 6.5 actively. Your high pass would be set at the lowest frequency your 4" mids can handle and the passives that came with that set would take care of the tweeter high pass. All in all it would make your entire system sound better.

Just a thought YO. :veryhapp:

jlaine
06-14-2005, 09:50 PM
He doesn't have the "wrong" crossover guys, he's missing a pair.

The set is supposed to come with a pair called SatNet and one pair called SubNet... There is a set of crossovers missing, but those are the right crossovers for the midrange and tweeter.

Personally man, why buy them? They aren't complete!

If you are set on them, does your deck have a high pass feature at all? Easiest solution would be to use a high pass off a deck, and then use a crossover on an amp to bandpass for the midwoofers... Problem being you need to know where the SatNet kicks in the midrange to really get it close, and because the slopes likely won't be the same, phasing issues may result - this really isn't a good idea - it may work but it may be more of a pain than it's worth dude.

95Prober
06-14-2005, 09:59 PM
nope! just found the second set of xovers, so i think we're in business. any more thoughts?

jlaine
06-14-2005, 10:09 PM
nope! just found the second set of xovers, so i think we're in business. any more thoughts?

Perfect!

Install and enjoy!