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    Originally posted by chris229
    Why do you want a tube AMP??? They don't take to vibration very well. They are over priced. They use ALOT of current at idle. They produce ALOT of heat. You couldn't tell the difference between them and a normal AMP. And if you don't beleave me A car audio pioneer, Richard Clark will give you $10,000 if you can tell the difference
    Richard removes any internal processing and goes straight to the output section... that is eliminating a major portion of the processing of the device.

    I have a PPI Michael Anthony Edition tube driver, MA2150 to be exact...

    And I have several standard MOSFET output stage amplifiers.

    I encourage anyone to come listen. You can make your own decisions, my house is open.







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    warmth from a tube is distortion richard wrote an article on it as well as mr navone also all i ever seen richard say is type a/b amps by passing any eq/xover they have and do a sound test on a nuetral system..granted there are differences in quality and he is right about our ears but read into what he is saying....how many people buy features on an amp then totally by pass them? some do most dont



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    Re: tube amp question

    Tube warmth is distortion?!? BUllshit...I've been playing the electric guitar for over 20 years now and I can tell you tube sound is the most sought after in the guitar world because it offers genuine warmth and natural tonal balance that cant be attained with even the best transister/solid state amp. Tube amp sound warmth being described as distortion is not only erroneous but completely laughable to any musician. I'll stake my money on a tube amp anyday for clarity, warmth, and overall tonal balance that CANNOT be achieved with any other amplifier and it has been this way for over 60 years.




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    Re: tube amp question

    Quote Originally Posted by jonb5150
    Tube warmth is distortion?!? BUllshit...I've been playing the electric guitar for over 20 years now and I can tell you tube sound is the most sought after in the guitar world because it offers genuine warmth and natural tonal balance that cant be attained with even the best transister/solid state amp. Tube amp sound warmth being described as distortion is not only erroneous but completely laughable to any musician. I'll stake my money on a tube amp anyday for clarity, warmth, and overall tonal balance that CANNOT be achieved with any other amplifier and it has been this way for over 60 years.
    Thanks for bumping and old thread and yes, it is distortion. Richard Clark awaits you.




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    Re: tube amp question

    lol i hate tube amps NON hifi at its best. you use your tube guitar amp to produce and shape a sound. a good REPRODUCTION unit like we are talking about should make it sound exact not "better" or worse than the original....and my step brother been playing alot longer than you even agrees with me...key points PRODUCTION and REPRODUCTION



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    Re: tube amp question

    ok, I'm not a car audio guy, but I am a musician and a vintage Hi-Fi fan. I can normally tell the difference, but I've heard non-tubed amps (not digital but still analogue) that tricked me.

    Tube warmth is not distortion. that is just retarded. Tubes do distort, but depending on the tube this will happen at a higher gain level. Audiophiles use tubes a lot, and they aren't into distortion... that's why they have a 20K turntable (no, your cd's aren't better either).

    Tubes amps add color to sound not only by the fact that they are tubed, but the types of cappacitors used in tubed amps also make a difference. The fact that tubed amps of high quality don't use ciurcut boards at all (wich limit flow a lot) and are wired point to point gives them an advantage.

    Is this better? no. is this worse? no.

    I've got friends who make music on their computers, and I just recorded an album on 2" tape. All of those friends thought it sounded to "muddy", but that's what we like. It's just a prefrence thing.

    do I think it will work in a car? yes. it has before, but I dont' have any experience in the tube amps that are made for cars. I think that a tube preamp is an easier option though. a preamp tube creates little heat and uses little current and will still add some warmth to the signal the amp is amplifying.

    oh... and a good tubed amp is always repairable and normally without too much work.

    one last thing... tubes have more headroom than digital, and they don't really clip the same way. a digital clip is much more damaging to your speakers.




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    Re: tube amp question

    do you know the deffinition of distortion? colorization is distortion. i know of only 2 real full TUBE amps that were ever avalible in a car set up and i know of many others who just used them on the output section (maybe just input its been almost 2 years since i dug into the car tube amp thing) . automotive environment isnt good for any electronics not to mention tubes.. hifi is by definition a true reproduction to the original materal (recording) i used to sell tube amps and 5000 dollar floor speakers (we had higher end ones to but i go by what i sold) 90% of the time they sounded better than the real thing being played which is far from being hifi. there is nothing wrong with it and even if you disagree with me by my terms you see where im coming from.i can locate the articles for you to read as well which in terms would see how distortion is measured output for output.



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    Re: tube amp question

    i don't believe that color is distortion. distortion is basicaly clipping. A signal can be colored by filters or capacitors. so, no, I don't see them as the same thing. Color can be very nice. It can make a record sound like it's live. It can melt those frequencies together into one wall of sound that is all consuming. i dont' like super clean and defined. To me, it sounds like a lot of sharp edges, where a good tone has a smooth feel to it.

    I've heard the Production/Reproduction argument before and it's silly. It's all about what you like. If YOU think a Hi-Fi should be a perfect reproduction of a recording then YOU should build YOUR hi-fi that way. I think a good hi-fi can make even a bad recording come to life and a good recording sound amazing. I've taken small 15w amps and made windows rattle with an amzing sound. That's what I like.

    and yeah, I dont' think the a car is an ideal place for a tubed amp or vise verse, but I still think it would be pretty cool. All my fav amps of mine or that I've heard are tubed. I like that sound. If I could get that sound in my car, I would like it there too.




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    Re: tube amp question

    Quote Originally Posted by audiomortis
    i don't believe that color is distortion. distortion is basicaly clipping. A signal can be colored by filters or capacitors. so, no, I don't see them as the same thing. Color can be very nice. It can make a record sound like it's live. It can melt those frequencies together into one wall of sound that is all consuming. i dont' like super clean and defined. To me, it sounds like a lot of sharp edges, where a good tone has a smooth feel to it.

    I've heard the Production/Reproduction argument before and it's silly. It's all about what you like. If YOU think a Hi-Fi should be a perfect reproduction of a recording then YOU should build YOUR hi-fi that way. I think a good hi-fi can make even a bad recording come to life and a good recording sound amazing. I've taken small 15w amps and made windows rattle with an amzing sound. That's what I like.

    and yeah, I dont' think the a car is an ideal place for a tubed amp or vise verse, but I still think it would be pretty cool. All my fav amps of mine or that I've heard are tubed. I like that sound. If I could get that sound in my car, I would like it there too.
    you need to read the article (forum) and by true deffinition to hifedelity is what i said it was. i just think light bulbs are silly, plus they charge 1800 for what i can build in my garage case and all for 150. dont get me wrong i like listening to some clapton on a devil ray tube amps with some system audio speakers from time to time too but when you get to that point of all tubey this and that you are no longer really listening to clapton you are listening to what you want him to sound like....



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    Re: tube amp question

    So did the one dude ever find out where to buy a tube amp, or did you "argumentative experts" forget the point of this thread?




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    Re: tube amp question

    Quote Originally Posted by 193dBman
    So did the one dude ever find out where to buy a tube amp, or did you "argumentative experts" forget the point of this thread?
    It was a two year old thread - the guy is either dead, not into car audio anymore, or found his answer two years ago. Go figure.

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    Re: tube amp question

    Quote Originally Posted by audiomortis
    ok, I'm not a car audio guy, but I am a musician and a vintage Hi-Fi fan. I can normally tell the difference, but I've heard non-tubed amps (not digital but still analogue) that tricked me.

    Tube warmth is not distortion. that is just retarded. Tubes do distort, but depending on the tube this will happen at a higher gain level. Audiophiles use tubes a lot, and they aren't into distortion... that's why they have a 20K turntable (no, your cd's aren't better either).

    Tubes amps add color to sound not only by the fact that they are tubed, but the types of cappacitors used in tubed amps also make a difference. The fact that tubed amps of high quality don't use ciurcut boards at all (wich limit flow a lot) and are wired point to point gives them an advantage.

    Is this better? no. is this worse? no.

    I've got friends who make music on their computers, and I just recorded an album on 2" tape. All of those friends thought it sounded to "muddy", but that's what we like. It's just a prefrence thing.

    do I think it will work in a car? yes. it has before, but I dont' have any experience in the tube amps that are made for cars. I think that a tube preamp is an easier option though. a preamp tube creates little heat and uses little current and will still add some warmth to the signal the amp is amplifying.

    oh... and a good tubed amp is always repairable and normally without too much work.

    one last thing... tubes have more headroom than digital, and they don't really clip the same way. a digital clip is much more damaging to your speakers.
    Exactly...only a punk who has no conception of natural sound would decry the tub amps tone and play it off as distortion, that is utter stupidity. These children cant get off this Richard persons **** about harmonic distortion, something both he and other members of this board have demonstrated multiple times they know nothing of.

    Tube amps are better period...they are not relegated to simply toning and shaping sound, they produce far lower distortion than ss amps and overall produce an exceptionally clean tone that no regular ss amp can touch. All regular ss amps are trying to do is EMULATE the resonant natural harmonics of a tube amp, and this is proven over and over with a myriad of manufactures on this neverending quest. To state that tube amps are somehow of poorer quality then a ss amp really boggles my mind, apart from simply being an assinine statement full of inaccuracy.

    The people who are pushing ss amps over a tube amp for sound repro come from 1 of three classes of car audio "enthusiast"....

    1) your weekend car audio warrior to regurigtates whatever he overhead the salesguy say at the local car audio store (best buy, circuit city etc...) over the weekend while his father was looking at the latest tv's.
    2)kids under the age of 20 who ve never even heard a tube amp and are simply going by heresy, typically lack the experience or ear to differentiate between good and "bad" sound.
    3)people who simply talking out of their asses because they have nothing better to do.

    Anyway, whether you agree or disagree with me, everything I said is right and if you disagree for whatever reason...you're still wrong.

    Tube amps own, the only drawback for a car that i can think is breakablility of the tubes themselves as they can be as fragile as a 60 watt light buld filament.




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    Re: tube amp question

    Quote Originally Posted by audiolife
    you need to read the article (forum) and by true deffinition to hifedelity is what i said it was. i just think light bulbs are silly, plus they charge 1800 for what i can build in my garage case and all for 150. dont get me wrong i like listening to some clapton on a devil ray tube amps with some system audio speakers from time to time too but when you get to that point of all tubey this and that you are no longer really listening to clapton you are listening to what you want him to sound like....

    Spoken like a true dummy!

    BUMP




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    Re: tube amp question

    Quote Originally Posted by ss3079
    It was a two year old thread - the guy is either dead, not into car audio anymore, or found his answer two years ago. Go figure.

    - Steve
    so does this mean that people who obviously dont know what they are talking about should stop arguing??

    and for those who dont know, a tube amps warmth IS distortion. the tubes create an interference in the upper harmonic range. i cant remember exactly which one it is, but i want to say the 7th harmonic maybe? the distortion is very faint though, and because of its location on the tone range it is percieved as a warmer more solid tone.

    to re-iterate, tube amps DO indeed sound different than a solid state amplifier, and this difference IS distortion.

    hopefully this will silence some of the less educated...




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