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    Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    What songs do you guys use for your final tweaks to balance your amps' gains?







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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjv13 View Post
    What songs do you guys use for your final tweaks to balance your amps' gains?
    A fifty hz and 1 khz test tone, and a dmm to set gains. Use whatever music you listen to at the time to set your eq afterwards.



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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by av83 View Post
    A fifty hz and 1 khz test tone, and a dmm to set gains. Use whatever music you listen to at the time to set your eq afterwards.
    That's not a good advise. Setting gain with a test tone almost certainly will not match the levels of subwoofer and mids. This is entirely sensitivity dependent. EQing after setting the gains by DMM is not optimal as EQ will not have the ability to affect the entire frequency range that's played by one of the drivers. The correct way to use DMM is to find out the MAXIMUM SAFE gain positions to use. However, it is entirely adequate to turn down the gain position below what's suggested by DMM for the sake of matching the levels.




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by zako View Post
    That's not a good advise. Setting gain with a test tone almost certainly will not match the levels of subwoofer and mids. This is entirely sensitivity dependent. EQing after setting the gains by DMM is not optimal as EQ will not have the ability to affect the entire frequency range that's played by one of the drivers. The correct way to use DMM is to find out the MAXIMUM SAFE gain positions to use. However, it is entirely adequate to turn down the gain position below what's suggested by DMM for the sake of matching the levels.
    Yeah, I know that. And I've set my gains with a DMM. My substage will be the limiting factor here, because at the moment my ears start to hurt from the tweeters and speakers before my sub is outputting it's highest volume. So I was just wondering if there is a certain genre of music that is best for blending the amps together well (or individual songs for that matter). For example, if I set them with metal then I would have my 4 channel's gain down too much. So on other music, the sub would be overpowering. If I set the gains with rap, then my sub would be down too much on music besides rap. So I was wondering if there was some genre that would be best, or songs that you guys have used before.




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by zako View Post
    That's not a good advise. Setting gain with a test tone almost certainly will not match the levels of subwoofer and mids. This is entirely sensitivity dependent. EQing after setting the gains by DMM is not optimal as EQ will not have the ability to affect the entire frequency range that's played by one of the drivers. The correct way to use DMM is to find out the MAXIMUM SAFE gain positions to use. However, it is entirely adequate to turn down the gain position below what's suggested by DMM for the sake of matching the levels.
    Yeah, I feel kinda dumb for saying that now. Sorry, op.



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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?





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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by av83 View Post
    Yeah, I feel kinda dumb for saying that now. Sorry, op.
    No worries. I think I found some good stuff. I'm going to use a lot of the songs off from Benny Benassi's "Rock N' Rave" album. Lots of highs, mids, and bass. Should be a good combination.




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjv13 View Post
    No worries. I think I found some good stuff. I'm going to use a lot of the songs off from Benny Benassi's "Rock N' Rave" album. Lots of highs, mids, and bass. Should be a good combination.
    this will bring the Lulz from a few members, I'm sure, but I use one of my wifes Evanescence albums. Has stuff all over the spectrum and strong bass.



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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by av83 View Post
    this will bring the Lulz from a few members, I'm sure, but I use one of my wifes Evanescence albums. Has stuff all over the spectrum and strong bass.
    Why is that?




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by sjv13 View Post
    If I set the gains with rap, then my sub would be down too much on music besides rap. So I was wondering if there was some genre that would be best, or songs that you guys have used before.
    Try music that you know well. Some kind of nice well recorded song you have heard before many times. I like to use the kick drum as a reference point. Turn up the volume level to what you normally listen at, then start increasing subwoofer gain until the kick drum seem to fit well within the music, not too weak or not too strong. You want to hear and feel the punch, but not too strong in-your-chest kind of kick, unless that's the goal. Obviously, to be usable for tuning, the recording should not have overly recessed or exaggerated bass. Having a good home audio system or at least a set of headphones as a reference would help.

    Kick drum punch is not just gain level dependent. Keep in mind that it also depends on the crossover points and slopes. Once you have got the kick drum where it should be in most of your recordings then start to listen for bass guitar and see whether it blends well with the music, specially the deepest notes. If deep bass string sounds like an "earthquake", (thick, bloated), then you have too much deep bass. At this point, I would prefer to turn the gain down and move the crossover frequency up to compensate for recessed kick drum punch which may happen when the gain is lowered. On the other hand if deep bass is lacking, then boost the subwoofer gain. If kick drum is now too strong, lower the crossover frequency and possibly use a sharper low pass slope. All of this is much easier if your head unit has all the crossovers and subwoofer level control so you can tune without touching the amplifier.

    Also play with the phase relationships. If it sounds like the deep bass notes kind of have a life of their own without blending much with the midbass, then you may be a good idea to flip subwoofer's electrical phase and start tuning again. Of course, this method is very simplistic, but it works well enough for me. I have a head unit that tunes equalization automatically using a microphone, and I still prefer to fine tune it with this method after the head unit runs its auto tune. With experience you can find a setting that rarely needs to be changed.

    One good recording that has a bit of everything is Pat Coil's "Just Ahead". There is a drum, bass guitar (somewhat strong already in recording IMO, but a good reference point), high frequencies, etc, but no vocals. If you have decent headphones (my favorites are Sennheiser PX100-ii and HD555), you can play its youtube video to confirm that it has pretty rich bass content.




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by zako View Post
    Try music that you know well. Some kind of nice well recorded song you have heard before many times. I like to use the kick drum as a reference point. Turn up the volume level to what you normally listen at, then start increasing subwoofer gain until the kick drum seem to fit well within the music, not too weak or not too strong. You want to hear and feel the punch, but not too strong in-your-chest kind of kick, unless that's the goal. Obviously, to be usable for tuning, the recording should not have overly recessed or exaggerated bass. Having a good home audio system or at least a set of headphones as a reference would help.

    Kick drum punch is not just gain level dependent. Keep in mind that it also depends on the crossover points and slopes. Once you have got the kick drum where it should be in most of your recordings then start to listen for bass guitar and see whether it blends well with the music, specially the deepest notes. If deep bass string sounds like an "earthquake", (thick, bloated), then you have too much deep bass. At this point, I would prefer to turn the gain down and move the crossover frequency up to compensate for recessed kick drum punch which may happen when the gain is lowered. On the other hand if deep bass is lacking, then boost the subwoofer gain. If kick drum is now too strong, lower the crossover frequency and possibly use a sharper low pass slope. All of this is much easier if your head unit has all the crossovers and subwoofer level control so you can tune without touching the amplifier.

    Also play with the phase relationships. If it sounds like the deep bass notes kind of have a life of their own without blending much with the midbass, then you may be a good idea to flip subwoofer's electrical phase and start tuning again. Of course, this method is very simplistic, but it works well enough for me. I have a head unit that tunes equalization automatically using a microphone, and I still prefer to fine tune it with this method after the head unit runs its auto tune. With experience you can find a setting that rarely needs to be changed.

    One good recording that has a bit of everything is Pat Coil's "Just Ahead". There is a drum, bass guitar (somewhat strong already in recording IMO, but a good reference point), high frequencies, etc, but no vocals. If you have decent headphones (my favorites are Sennheiser PX100-ii and HD555), you can play its youtube video to confirm that it has pretty rich bass content.
    Cool! Thanks for the in-depth reply!




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    You people are doing this all wrong. Av was correct in his first post. The gains are to be set by a tone, so that on any music you never send a clipped signal. EQ/Fader/Crossover points are set afterwards on the music you listen to.

    If you set gains on music, you would literally have to reset them on every single song in order to get balanced, clean output. Sound isn't recorded completely flat by every artist in every genre. Fine tuning with the EQ settings you have at hand are the only quick means of having decently balanced output. Bear in mind that some artists intentionally record some parts of music louder than others as part of the sound they are deliberately wanting the end listener to hear.



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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by wickedwitt View Post
    You people are doing this all wrong. Av was correct in his first post. The gains are to be set by a tone, so that on any music you never send a clipped signal. EQ/Fader/Crossover points are set afterwards on the music you listen to.

    I don't see how this is going to work well. If you set gains strictly by DMM method, your mid and subwoofer levels almost certainly do not match. You propose to fix that by the means of EQ, but that's almost impossible to get to work. Equalizer is not for level matching speakers. Imagine the mid and subwoofer level are mismatched. The mid is playing from 80 to 4000Hz. How are you going to uniformly turn up or down the level of that speaker with just equalizer, and specially the particular kind that may happen to be available?



    If you set gains on music, you would literally have to reset them on every single song in order to get balanced, clean output.
    That's why I said, find something that _well recorded_. Not some recording with out of whack mixing. Try something instrumental, live recording, etc. If you set gains AND equalization by RTA method, instead of say using music, you will still find that some recordings will sound off. That's the way of life IMO. Some stuff is just badly recorded, and if you need it to sound right you need to make adjustments regardless of what method was using to tune the sound system originally.

    I think too many people are reading too much into "setting gains by DMM". A correct name is really "finding the highest safest gain level by DMM". Once you have found it, you don't have to use it. It's ok to turn down the gain of at least one set of speakers to level match. Of course, it would still be adequate to set the gain by DMM to the maximum safe level, and then turn down the level of the speaker set from the head unit. For example, the DEH-80PRS can control tweeters, mids, and subs separately. This is not available in all installs though.




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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    Quote Originally Posted by zako View Post
    The mid is playing from 80 to 4000Hz. How are you going to uniformly turn up or down the level of that speaker with just equalizer, and specially the particular kind that may happen to be available?
    Simple, you use either the deck or an inline eq to back off whichever of the two is over powering.

    Having it at the deck means the ability to change it on the fly if you get a song that is recorded way off. Having it in an in-line EQ w/ a remote offers the same control. In-lines w/out a remote and/or gain balancing offers no ability to change while going down the road.



    Stupid Loud.

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    Re: Best songs to mix sub/high amp gains with?

    I was thinking more along the lines of how @zako ; was. I set everything up yesterday with songs I knew well and I a really happy with the sound.




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