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Reload Thread: built in crossovers - why!

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    marineboy0's Avatar
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    built in crossovers - why!

    I have a JL300/4 amp with separate built in crossovers on two channels. I want to buy a front set of mid-range and tweeter speakers to go with the amp to use in a compact car. Most of the component sets seem to come with electronic crossovers. This crossover seems redundant since I have that in the JL 300/4amp.

    Since the JL300/4 has quality crossovers can anyone comment or suggest what mid-range bass 6.5" and 1" tweeter separate components I should listen to and whether I am better off using the amp crossover or forget it and just buy a component set such as the JL XR650 and use the electronic crossover that comes in the component set.

    My objective is to achieve as clear as possible human voice rendition rather than booming bass. The tweeters can mount in the A-pillars on the vehicle that I have (Mitsu Eclipse)







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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by marineboy0
    I have a JL300/4 amp with separate built in crossovers on two channels. I want to buy a front set of mid-range and tweeter speakers to go with the amp to use in a compact car. Most of the component sets seem to come with electronic crossovers. This crossover seems redundant since I have that in the JL 300/4amp.

    Since the JL300/4 has quality crossovers can anyone comment or suggest what mid-range bass 6.5" and 1" tweeter separate components I should listen to and whether I am better off using the amp crossover or forget it and just buy a component set such as the JL XR650 and use the electronic crossover that comes in the component set.

    My objective is to achieve as clear as possible human voice rendition rather than booming bass. The tweeters can mount in the A-pillars on the vehicle that I have (Mitsu Eclipse)
    if you have a h/u with active crossover settings, then go with using the jl 300/4 and leave all crossover settings at flat. now if you don't have a h/u that will run actively then you do want a passive crossover like the jl xr 650 offers b/c it already has the pre-set frequency range and ohm rating's from JL to give you the maximum benefit. i am running dual 2 channels to my comps running fully active so i am running 1 channel per tweet and 1 channel per 7" midbass. so lemme know what kind of h/u you have and i can see if you should go with the jl xr's or something that you DIY.

    adam



    2006 Bright Island Blue 6s: stock 6 disc in dash, Hertz Hi-Energy 6.5" comps, MB Quart Ref 12", eclipse 5-channel sub amp.

    Car mods: Lowered on Mazdaspeed springs with Koni Yellow shocks, Racing beat front/rear sway bars with AWR end links, LED turn signals, tail lights, front side markers, 18" ADR Cypher rims, 55w HID's in low beam and fogs, 5% tint all the way around. No go fast mods yet...tuning and Mazda6 don't go well together .

    Steve a.k.a. ss3079: So this one lady goes, "These ignorant people who drive around blasting there music, they cant hear emergency vehicles"
    So that set me off, and I said "Well then why do they let deaf people drive?"

    AOL: JmKeenen

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    Lusso5's Avatar
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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by marineboy0
    I have a JL300/4 amp with separate built in crossovers on two channels. I want to buy a front set of mid-range and tweeter speakers to go with the amp to use in a compact car. Most of the component sets seem to come with electronic crossovers. This crossover seems redundant since I have that in the JL 300/4amp.

    Since the JL300/4 has quality crossovers can anyone comment or suggest what mid-range bass 6.5" and 1" tweeter separate components I should listen to and whether I am better off using the amp crossover or forget it and just buy a component set such as the JL XR650 and use the electronic crossover that comes in the component set.

    My objective is to achieve as clear as possible human voice rendition rather than booming bass. The tweeters can mount in the A-pillars on the vehicle that I have (Mitsu Eclipse)
    The component sets I buy, have all had "bi-amping" capability. Where you can run seperate amplified channels to both the tweeter and woofer through their supplied passive x-overs.
    When looking for a component set - look for this feature if you want to run dedicated channels.

    If not - bridge your amp to 2 channels and run them through the component's supplied x-overs.

    Good manufacutuers spend alot of time testing/matching the right x-over point & slope to the components - why not use them?

    Plus a typical tweeter needs a HPF of 2-4khz. Does your amp have a HPF that goes that high?

    I recommend you bridge your amp to 2 channels, and use the x-overs supplied with the compnents you buy. Using the HPF on the amp set at the point closest, you can get to, to the low-end of the woofers freq. response.




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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusso5
    The component sets I buy, have all had "bi-amping" capability. Where you can run seperate amplified channels to both the tweeter and woofer through their supplied passive x-overs.
    When looking for a component set - look for this feature if you want to run dedicated channels.

    If not - bridge your amp to 2 channels and run them through the component's supplied x-overs.

    Good manufacutuers spend alot of time testing/matching the right x-over point & slope to the components - why not use them?

    Plus a typical tweeter needs a HPF of 2-4khz. Does your amp have a HPF that goes that high?

    I recommend you bridge your amp to 2 channels, and use the x-overs supplied with the compnents you buy. Using the HPF on the amp set at the point closest, you can get to, to the low-end of the woofers freq. response.
    biamped and run passive?? why not bridge it's absolutely no different unless your running like an 8ohm tweet and 4ohm mid. biamping means you typically run active like i am.

    adam



    2006 Bright Island Blue 6s: stock 6 disc in dash, Hertz Hi-Energy 6.5" comps, MB Quart Ref 12", eclipse 5-channel sub amp.

    Car mods: Lowered on Mazdaspeed springs with Koni Yellow shocks, Racing beat front/rear sway bars with AWR end links, LED turn signals, tail lights, front side markers, 18" ADR Cypher rims, 55w HID's in low beam and fogs, 5% tint all the way around. No go fast mods yet...tuning and Mazda6 don't go well together .

    Steve a.k.a. ss3079: So this one lady goes, "These ignorant people who drive around blasting there music, they cant hear emergency vehicles"
    So that set me off, and I said "Well then why do they let deaf people drive?"

    AOL: JmKeenen

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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by bumpin_blazer
    biamped and run passive?? why not bridge it's absolutely no different unless your running like an 8ohm tweet and 4ohm mid. biamping means you typically run active like i am.

    adam
    Talking crossovers:
    "Bi-amping" to me, and to the manfacturers of the x-overs/components I use, means running two input channels through the "passive" x-over.

    Are you using "bi-amping" and "bridging" synonymously? Because I am not.




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    bumpin_blazer's Avatar
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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusso5
    Talking crossovers:
    "Bi-amping" to me, and to the manfacturers of the x-overs/components I use, means running two input channels through the "passive" x-over.

    Are you using "bi-amping" and "bridging" synonymously? Because I am not.
    no i've never met someone who would biamp componets into a passive x-over simply b/c the passive crossover has points and slopes of freq range you can select directly from it. to me i wouldn't want the extra speaker wire to run due to $$ i'd just bridge the channels. the only advantage is you have a little more speaker control with the amp but if you are running comps up front and controlling the front stage via 1 4 channel amp i would either run them in a bridged mode if i'm going passive or a biamp mode if i'm going active. you won't see any power difference other than any passive crossover eats 25-35 percent of your power. so 1 thing to look into is that if you wanna send 150watts to a side you'll need close to 200.

    adam



    2006 Bright Island Blue 6s: stock 6 disc in dash, Hertz Hi-Energy 6.5" comps, MB Quart Ref 12", eclipse 5-channel sub amp.

    Car mods: Lowered on Mazdaspeed springs with Koni Yellow shocks, Racing beat front/rear sway bars with AWR end links, LED turn signals, tail lights, front side markers, 18" ADR Cypher rims, 55w HID's in low beam and fogs, 5% tint all the way around. No go fast mods yet...tuning and Mazda6 don't go well together .

    Steve a.k.a. ss3079: So this one lady goes, "These ignorant people who drive around blasting there music, they cant hear emergency vehicles"
    So that set me off, and I said "Well then why do they let deaf people drive?"

    AOL: JmKeenen

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    maylar's Avatar
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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by marineboy0
    I have a JL300/4 amp with separate built in crossovers on two channels. I want to buy a front set of mid-range and tweeter speakers to go with the amp to use in a compact car. Most of the component sets seem to come with electronic crossovers. This crossover seems redundant since I have that in the JL 300/4amp.
    Biamping the front speakers means you need 4 channels. Lowpassing the mids, and hipassing the tweets for each channel. You'd also need an additional hipass for the mids to limit the bass to them. Some people do that, and make DIY components. You get a lot of control this way.

    For those of us who don't want to get that involved, it's easier to get components that come with custom made passive crossovers. You only need 1 amplifier channel per side, not 2. But it does cost money - the crossover units on high end components is probably 1/2 the total cost.



    dave
    ----------
    1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
    Head Unit: JVC KWHDR720
    EQ: Audiocontrol EQL
    Front Stage: Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine 5.25 mids, Morel Maximo tweets
    Sub Stage: Boston G3 10", 0.5 cu ft sealed
    Amp: PPI Phantom 900.4
    Rear Fill: Boston SE953 6X9's

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    maylar's Avatar
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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lusso5
    Talking crossovers:
    "Bi-amping" to me, and to the manfacturers of the x-overs/components I use, means running two input channels through the "passive" x-over.
    Bi-Amping to me is running separate channels directly to the mids and tweets without passive crossovers. Isn't that the point of it... having adjustable slopes & frequencies?



    dave
    ----------
    1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
    Head Unit: JVC KWHDR720
    EQ: Audiocontrol EQL
    Front Stage: Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine 5.25 mids, Morel Maximo tweets
    Sub Stage: Boston G3 10", 0.5 cu ft sealed
    Amp: PPI Phantom 900.4
    Rear Fill: Boston SE953 6X9's

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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    I guess we're talking about different things here.

    Take a look at my McIntosh MSS650 manual, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
    http://66.216.98.167/mcprod/product_docs/MSS650om.pdf

    My 360a x-overs for my Dynaudios work the same way.

    Just FYI - I dont use the bi-amping feature on any of them, by the way.




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    maylar's Avatar
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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Interesting. I've never seen that before. I wonder what benefit you get from doing that?



    dave
    ----------
    1999 Buick Park Ave Ultra
    Head Unit: JVC KWHDR720
    EQ: Audiocontrol EQL
    Front Stage: Hybrid Audio Technologies Imagine 5.25 mids, Morel Maximo tweets
    Sub Stage: Boston G3 10", 0.5 cu ft sealed
    Amp: PPI Phantom 900.4
    Rear Fill: Boston SE953 6X9's

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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by maylar
    Interesting. I've never seen that before. I wonder what benefit you get from doing that?
    "Moderate sonic benefits" is what I've been told. In a car (crappy acoustics) - I'm not going to waste my time, or another set of channels.

    I guess the bi-amping I was talking about (crossover only) could be considered passive bi-amping, while the commonly discussed and used term "bi-amping" could accurately be described as active bi-amping (even though you'll still need a passive HPF for the tweets, but anyways). If they needed to be differed (which this thread is probably the only case they ever will need to be...LOL)

    I know what you were talking about though, referring to "bi-amping". I was just talking x-overs.




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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Hi,
    most companies will void their warranties if the passive x-overs are not installed, also, the included x-overs usually have built-in fuses to protect the tweeters from frying. Just replace the fuse if you get out of hand, if you get out of hand without the x-overs "YOUR DONE", nooo warranty!



    Make it better......

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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by crispy highs
    Hi,
    most companies will void their warranties if the passive x-overs are not installed, also, the included x-overs usually have built-in fuses to protect the tweeters from frying. Just replace the fuse if you get out of hand, if you get out of hand without the x-overs "YOUR DONE", nooo warranty!
    ummm, if you buy componets with a passive crossover and then ditch it, that's a total and complete waste of $$. like maylar said, high end comps the crossover is usually 1/2 the cost or more. like with CDT euro's the crossover's are about 350 bucks and the whole set is roughly 700-800 or there about.

    adam



    2006 Bright Island Blue 6s: stock 6 disc in dash, Hertz Hi-Energy 6.5" comps, MB Quart Ref 12", eclipse 5-channel sub amp.

    Car mods: Lowered on Mazdaspeed springs with Koni Yellow shocks, Racing beat front/rear sway bars with AWR end links, LED turn signals, tail lights, front side markers, 18" ADR Cypher rims, 55w HID's in low beam and fogs, 5% tint all the way around. No go fast mods yet...tuning and Mazda6 don't go well together .

    Steve a.k.a. ss3079: So this one lady goes, "These ignorant people who drive around blasting there music, they cant hear emergency vehicles"
    So that set me off, and I said "Well then why do they let deaf people drive?"

    AOL: JmKeenen

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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    bumpin blazer how do u have yours set up? custom crossover, biamped or what? if u have a custom crossover who made it




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    Re: built in crossovers - why!

    Quote Originally Posted by nismboy6986
    bumpin blazer how do u have yours set up? custom crossover, biamped or what? if u have a custom crossover who made it
    no crossover's 4 sets of speaker wire. dual 2 channel amps a ppi art 100 giving 40wattsx2 for each tweeter, and a art 600.2 giving 150 per mid range. it works nicely if i hadn't blown my tweeters. i have no desire to ever use a crossover again i have absolutely no need for em.

    adam



    2006 Bright Island Blue 6s: stock 6 disc in dash, Hertz Hi-Energy 6.5" comps, MB Quart Ref 12", eclipse 5-channel sub amp.

    Car mods: Lowered on Mazdaspeed springs with Koni Yellow shocks, Racing beat front/rear sway bars with AWR end links, LED turn signals, tail lights, front side markers, 18" ADR Cypher rims, 55w HID's in low beam and fogs, 5% tint all the way around. No go fast mods yet...tuning and Mazda6 don't go well together .

    Steve a.k.a. ss3079: So this one lady goes, "These ignorant people who drive around blasting there music, they cant hear emergency vehicles"
    So that set me off, and I said "Well then why do they let deaf people drive?"

    AOL: JmKeenen

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