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  1. #46
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    Wang Wang Wang. Yes, let's blame THD for effecting SQ in an amplifier.

    http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/thd.htm

    I particularly like this quote:

    " When someone tells you that one amplifier is definitely going to sound better because its THD is rated at .002% vs an amp with .05%, you can be pretty sure that he doesn't know what he's talking about. Many people believe that THD below 1% is not audible and I believe they're probably correct. "

    Notice that speakers can easily introduce greater than 1% THD - even to the point of being audible. -Thus why some speakers are clearly better than others also.

    Pretty clear that the amplifiers introduced distortion has no bearing on SQ.

    Point 1 is pretty null and void.


    Hoss, amplifiers do work differently- by means of the way they deliver wattage; not by influencing sound.


    Now we can bring up the issue of non-standard amplifier ratings-

    Amp a is rated at 400 W but actually produces near 700 W

    Amp b is rated also at 400 w but actually produces near 300 W

    Now clearly to the untrained ear- amp A would sound better than amp B on the same system due to the increased signal strength. While in fact- SQ has remained the same, power has varied.

    Thus, the end result will be the same, because the amplifier did not, and can not influence Sound Quality.

    If it does, its broken; or its not an amplifier.

    Last I checked RC still had his $10k to confirm this.


    Oh yes, Marky - My purple car goes faster than your red car- with square wheels.

    Magazine? We don't need no stinkin magazine.

    take it easy,

    -zane

    In my previous posts, you'll note that I was comparing an amp with substantial distortion (10%) vs. an amp with low distortion (.05% IIRC). I'm quite sure 10% is audible, because I could hear a difference when I switched away from the Optimus amp to a different one (JBL BP300.1 to be exact), both of which put out roughly the same power.

    I maintain that an amplifier that is of poor enough design quality can sound different than one of higher quality. However, as I've said before, amps that have any noticable impact on sound (other than volume) are extremely rare, but they do exist.



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  2. #47
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by awalbert88
    In my previous posts, you'll note that I was comparing an amp with substantial distortion (10%) vs. an amp with low distortion (.05% IIRC). I'm quite sure 10% is audible, because I could hear a difference when I switched away from the Optimus amp to a different one (JBL BP300.1 to be exact), both of which put out roughly the same power.

    I maintain that an amplifier that is of poor enough design quality can sound different than one of higher quality. However, as I've said before, amps that have any noticable impact on sound (other than volume) are extremely rare, but they do exist.

    Find me a single mobile audio Optimus amp with a natural OEM 10% THD first.

    For that matter, and considering that I have had the cover off of 2 Optimus amps this past week, find me an Optimus amp who's rated THD exceeds the 1% range.

    BTW- your BP300.1's THD is 0.1% not .05%- both still inaudible, so pretty much a moot point.


    Not to mention that your BP300.1 has a built in "non- user defeatable" low pass filter to color the sound. So your ears deceive you in both of your observations.


    I will again maintain that an amplifier can not in any way, shape, or form, effect Sound Quality. Quite frankly, there is nothing about an amp that is engineered to do so.

    I don't see why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

    Then again, back to the square wheel analogy.............


    take it easy,

    -zane





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  3. #48
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by bumpin_blazer
    compare the linear power to the copper of sh-1 you tell me who will win.

    adam

    ah, yes, but we arent really comparing like for like here? an SPL beast amplifier against a more SQ system aimed amplifier which is ideally supposed to be run at 4ohm and if you must, it will do 2 ohm mono operation too (take the 3.2HV for example).

    as far as i know/see it and LPTech have said to me, their amps are designed with SQ in mind, SQ being one of the more forefront goals, along with efficiency - over 1k with a claimed 60amp fuse on the 3.2.

    also, even though i have the utmost respect for TRU amps, i am also merely pointing out that LP did what TRU are doing now, many year sgao (take the 4.1) - this business about T03 transistors.

    what i cant understand though is why the 4.1 isnt being produced (LPTech say its because they can no longer get hold of an adeqaute quantity of T03's), and TRU are quite freely using T03's in some of their amps. i think LP need to change parts supplier




  4. #49
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    Find me a single mobile audio Optimus amp with a natural OEM 10% THD first.

    For that matter, and considering that I have had the cover off of 2 Optimus amps this past week, find me an Optimus amp who's rated THD exceeds the 1% range.
    Uh, the Optimus amp I have is rated at 10% THD.

    And you said earlier that amps don't color sound, so why are you saying that the JBL amp does just that?

    Make up your mind, man.



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  5. #50
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by awalbert88
    Uh, the Optimus amp I have is rated at 10% THD.

    And you said earlier that amps don't color sound, so why are you saying that the JBL amp does just that?

    Make up your mind, man.

    Care to divulge the model number of the Optimus amp......

    I call your bluff.


    Pertaining to the JBL Amp: re-read my previous comments about what forces a coloring in sound- it's low pass filter.

    Last I looked, a low pass filter was not an amp.

    Nothing wrong with my previous statements at all.

    take it easy,

    -zane





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  6. #51
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by awalbert88
    Uh, the Optimus amp I have is rated at 10% THD.
    You're entirely sure that this "Optimus amp" isn't just a shoebox with the words "Optimus. 10% THD" written on it?




    Is this not a reasonable place to park?

  7. #52
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    Care to divulge the model number of the Optimus amp......

    I call your bluff.


    Pertaining to the JBL Amp: re-read my previous comments about what forces a coloring in sound- it's low pass filter.

    Last I looked, a low pass filter was not an amp.

    Nothing wrong with my previous statements at all.

    take it easy,

    -zane
    The amp is sitting out in my garage at the moment, but I'll get the model number and information for you tomorrow.. today.. er.. whenever I wake up, because it's 4AM right now.

    A low pass filter can be part of an amp. If you're going to get into semantics and say that an amp is only the part of the "amplifier" that increases the signal, then I think perhaps you should have said this from the get go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_ab
    You're entirely sure that this "Optimus amp" isn't just a shoebox with the words "Optimus. 10% THD" written on it?
    It may as well have been for the $100 I paid for it. Not a bad price for 400W, but the amp was a piece of junk. There's a reason Optimus isn't in car audio anymore. Tandy Corporation seems to make a lot of half-assed products, sell them for awhile, realize they're junk, then discontinue them... And I suspect the reason for this is that all employees of Radio Shack/Tandy/Optimus have to sign an agreement upon being hired that anything they invent within seven years of their employment is the sole property of Tandy Corporation. Yes, even the salespeople at your local Radio Shack store. You may ask, "how in the hell could those idiots invent anything?" And to that question, I have no answer.


    Wow, I really should think about getting some sleep...



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  8. #53
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by awalbert88
    The amp is sitting out in my garage at the moment, but I'll get the model number and information for you tomorrow.. today.. er.. whenever I wake up, because it's 4AM right now.

    A low pass filter can be part of an amp. If you're going to get into semantics and say that an amp is only the part of the "amplifier" that increases the signal, then I think perhaps you should have said this from the get go.

    Ugggh.

    Have a re-read of this thread.

    The underlying issue is that some blindly think an amplifier can effect sound quality all on it's own.

    A watt from amp 1 will sound the same as a watt from amp 2.

    An amplifier is by design in-capable of effecting sound quality.


    A filter, EQ, Crossover, DSP, can effect sound quality, it was designed to do so.

    Then again, none of those are amp's either.

    take it easy,

    -zane





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  9. #54
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    A filter, EQ, Crossover, DSP, can effect sound quality, it was designed to do so.

    Then again, none of those are amp's either.

    take it easy,

    -zane
    hence why most top end companies do not put any of the aformentioned "enhancers" on their amplifiers to leave them simply doing what they are there for. putting out wattage to speakers.

    adam



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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    Ugggh.

    Have a re-read of this thread.

    The underlying issue is that some blindly think an amplifier can effect sound quality all on it's own.

    A watt from amp 1 will sound the same as a watt from amp 2.

    An amplifier is by design in-capable of effecting sound quality.


    A filter, EQ, Crossover, DSP, can effect sound quality, it was designed to do so.

    Then again, none of those are amp's either.

    take it easy,

    -zane

    The vast majority of amplifiers on the market today posess at least one of those things you mentioned. I will assume from the way you're speaking that we are no longer talking about an entire amplifier package, but only the part of an amplifier concerned with amplification. There's a big difference there.



    JL Audio 12W7, JBL BP300.1

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  11. #56
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    |
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    V





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  12. #57
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by awalbert88
    The vast majority of amplifiers on the market today posess at least one of those things you mentioned. I will assume from the way you're speaking that we are no longer talking about an entire amplifier package, but only the part of an amplifier concerned with amplification. There's a big difference there.
    Bingo!

    The amplifier itself can not in any way shape or form effect sound quality, as a watt is a watt.

    Crossover, filters, etc, do effect sound quality. While they are included on some amps, they are the sole sound altering device- not the amp itself.



    Are we clear on this yet?





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  13. #58
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    The amplifier itself can not in any way shape or form effect sound quality, as a watt is a watt.

    This...is simply false.

    Some amps are so expensive because their watts are special, each amp is coated with special SQ fairy dust, which optimizes each watt with special wangpower.





  14. #59
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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    [QUOTE=snova031]
    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    The amplifier itself can not in any way shape or form effect sound quality, as a watt is a watt.
    QUOTE]


    This...is simply false.

    Some amps are so expensive because their watts are special, each amp is coated with special SQ fairy dust, which optimizes each watt with special wangpower.

    Been listening to joshie poo again haven't we! :p

    take it easy,

    -zane





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    Re: TRU TECHNOLOGY Amps

    Quote Originally Posted by zane
    Bingo!

    The amplifier itself can not in any way shape or form effect sound quality, as a watt is a watt.

    Crossover, filters, etc, do effect sound quality. While they are included on some amps, they are the sole sound altering device- not the amp itself.



    Are we clear on this yet?

    Hmmm....ahh....hmm...no. Not clear yet. Let's dumb it down a bit here. So these "Amplifiers" you speak of...they colour the sound right?
    Man, I'm so confused.




    Is this not a reasonable place to park?

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