Closed Thread
Results 1 to 9 of 9

Reload Thread: Question about ohms and bridging...

  1. #1
    Justinw303's Avatar
    Justinw303 is offline [Space for Rent]



    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Age
    26
    Posts
    772
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)

    Question about ohms and bridging...

    I'm very new to the car audio scene, and I have a question. I just called a guy at a car audio place and asked him a question, and his response brought up this question.

    Alright, let's say I have two 4 ohm subs (50-200 rms). I also have a 2 channel amp. Here are the specs:

    200 watts RMS x 2 at 4 ohms
    300 watts RMS x 2 at 2 ohms
    600 watts RMS x 1 bridged output at 4 ohms
    4-ohm stable in bridged mode

    Now, I asked the guy if I could run one sub per channel, seeing as I have 2 subs and a 2 channel amp. Well, he said I would have to run it in bridged mode.

    This is where I get confused. He said that since the subs were 4 ohms, it would be running 300 watts to each sub at 2 ohms.

    So, does this mean when you bridge an amp with 2 subs you take the ohm rating of the subs and half it to know how many ohms the amp will encounter?

    Also, How come he said I could bridge the 2 subs on the amp, and when I look at the specs on the amp the only time it mentions bridging is when it says 600 watts RMS x 1 bridged output at 4 ohms. So, what's up?

    And the lowest number of ohms the amp can handle bridged (according to the specs) is 4, so how could I do what he told me to do?

    I would really appreciate some help with this. I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

    I realize the equipment is cheap, but please bear in mind that I'm a novice.







  2. #2
    desi_daru's Avatar
    desi_daru is offline CarAudio.com Elite



    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    BC, Canada
    Posts
    543
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...




    Car - 04' Honda Civic Si, silver

    Deck - Clarion ProAudio DXZ835MP
    Fronts - Alpine Type-R SPR-136A (5.25" comps w/ 1" tweet)
    Speaker Amp - MTX Thunder404
    Sub - 1x Rockford Fosgate RFP3412 ported box
    Sub Amp - Rockford Fosgate Punch 150S
    Wiring - power/ground 4guage, speaker 16guage

  3. #3
    jsloan10's Avatar
    jsloan10 is offline Registered User



    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    anywhere
    Posts
    982
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    3.5.3 What happens when an amp is bridged?
    -------------------------------------------

    Basically, one channel's signal is inverted, and then the two channels
    are combined to form one channel with twice the voltage of either of
    the original channels.

    Ohm's Law for Alternating Current states that I = V/Z where I is
    current, V is voltage, and Z is impedance. We also know that P = IV,
    where P is power. If we use Ohm's Law and substitute into the power
    equation, we get P = V(V/Z), which can be rewritten as P = (V^2)/Z.
    Therefore, power is the square of voltage divided by impedance.

    Now, why do we care about all that? Because it explains precisely what
    happens when an amp is bridged. I'll give a practical example and
    explain the theoretical basis of that example.

    Imagine you have a two-channel amp that puts out 50 watts into each
    channel when driven into a load of 4 ohms per channel. Since we know P
    and Z, we can plug these numbers back into our power equation and find
    V. 50 = V^2/4 -> V = sqrt(200). So, we're seeing a voltage of 14.1
    volts across each channel.

    Now, imagine we bridge this amp, and use it to push just one of those 4
    ohms loads. When the amp is bridged, the voltage is doubled. Since we
    know the voltage (2*14.1 volts), and the impedance (4 ohms), we can
    calculate power. Remember that P = V*V/Z. That means P = (28.2)^2/4,
    which is 198.1 watts. It should be clear by now that the new power is
    approximately 200 watts - quadruple the power of a single, unbridged
    channel!

    You can probably see that should be the case, especially if you look
    back at the power equation. Since P = V*V/Z, if you double V, you
    quadruple power, since V is squared in the power equation.

    Now, all this assumes the amp is stable into 4 ohms mono. The mono
    channel is putting out four times as much power as a single unbridged
    channel, so it must be putting out twice as much as the two single
    channels combined. Since the voltage on the supply side of the amp is
    dependent on the car's electrical system, it doesn't change (OK, the
    increased current might cause a voltage *drop*, but let's not worry
    about that now). Looking at the first power equation, at the supply
    side of the amp, we see P = IV. Now, when we bridged the amp, we
    doubled the power, but the input voltage stayed the same. So, if we
    hold V constant, the only way to double the power is to double the
    current.

    That means the amp is now drawing twice as much current when it's
    running at a given impedance mono than it would be running two stereo
    channels at the same impedance. There are only two ways the amp can do
    that - it can simply draw more through it's circuits, and dissipate the
    extra heat, or it can utilize a current limiter, to prevent the
    increase in current. Of course, using the current limiter means you
    don't get the power gains, either! So, if the amp can't handle the
    extra current, and it doesn't limit the current in some way, kiss it
    goodbye. For that reason, an amp is typically considered mono stable
    into twice the impedance it is considered stereo stable.


    3.5.4 Does bridging an amp would halve the impedance of the speakers?
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Impedance is a characteristic of the speakers. The speakers don't give
    a flip how the amp is configured: they have a given impedance curve,
    and that's that. It should be clear that when you bridge an amp, you
    are changing *the amp*. The speaker's impedance is *not* a function of
    the amp, but the amp's tolerance to a given impedance depends
    completely on the way the amp is configured. If you'll remember from
    section 4, an amp bridged into a given impedance draws twice as much
    current as it would if it were driving two separate channels, each at
    that impedance. So, a four ohm speaker stays a four ohm speaker, if
    it's hooked to one channel, a bridged channel, a toaster, or the wall
    socket. But, it is more stressful for the amp to drive any impedance
    bridged than unbridged.

    So, why do people talk about the impedance halving? Well, it's a
    simple model that isn't correct but is easy to explain to people who
    don't know what's really going on. It goes like this: When you bridge
    the amp, each channel is "seeing" half the load presented to the amp.
    So, if you bridge an amp to 4 ohms, each channel "sees" 2 ohms.
    Therefore, each channel puts out twice as much power, and the combined
    output is quadruple a single channel at 4 ohms.

    Why is that still wrong? Because each channel isn't really used as a
    single channel. You've used part of one channel, and an inverted part
    of another channel to create a totally new channel, the bridged
    channel. Also, there's no way for a channel to "see" only part of a
    circuit. If it's "seeing" half the speaker, it's "seeing" it all.

    Second, it makes it awkward if people believe that the impedance is
    really, literally, changing. If you use that model, is it safe to run
    a 4 ohm mono stable amp into a 4 ohm speaker? It should be, but we
    just said the impedance halves, so that's now a 2 ohm speaker, and you
    can't use it. That's wrong, and confusing, and it makes people think
    they can't do things they really can.




  4. #4
    Justinw303's Avatar
    Justinw303 is offline [Space for Rent]

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Age
    26
    Posts
    772
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    That link really helped me out. The text in the second post just confused me

    Ok, I used the link and found the wiring option I needed, and it would be a 2 ohm load and bridged I assume because the positive and the negative for each sub is connected and put in the same connector.

    So, since my amp is not stable at 2 ohms bridged, it wouldn't work. Right?

    Sorry, I'm just not good at science.




  5. #5
    jsloan10's Avatar
    jsloan10 is offline Registered User



    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    anywhere
    Posts
    982
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    If you read what I posted you wouldn't need to ask that, but appearently your Illiterate so I could just call you an ungrateful NooB and you wouldn't have a clue.




  6. #6
    Justinw303's Avatar
    Justinw303 is offline [Space for Rent]

    Threadstarter


    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, MD
    Age
    26
    Posts
    772
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    1 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    I guess this is what I get for asking nicely...

    Look man, I'm not illiterate. I just can't follow what you posted because I am not familiar in the slightest with anything having to do with electrical workings. Therefore, I had no idea what most of the terms used in the paragraphs meant, so I get lost easy. I know you're probably very good with car audio, but please, have mercy on my questions. I'm just trying to learn a little bit...




  7. #7
    jsloan10's Avatar
    jsloan10 is offline Registered User



    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    anywhere
    Posts
    982
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    Give a man a fish or teach a man to fish
    Heres the fish-
    wire the subs the up stereo like you would any speaker or bridge the amp and run the subs in series, you will get the same power to the subs either way.
    Series is + from the amp to + on the sub then take the - of the sub and run it to the + on the next sub then run the next subs - back to the - on the amp.

    Im having my rag right now and the cramps are killing me




  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    San Marcos, TX
    Posts
    52
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    Here is what bridging an amp in simpliest terms is... you have a 4 channel amp that runs 50 watts rms per channel at 4 ohms each....

    So that means you can run 4 speakers 50 watts or less because it has four channels right...

    Well what you can also do is run 2 speakers at 50 watts from 2 channels and combine the other two channels to create one other channel that can handle twice the wattage.... this is used mostly to power a single sub.... and with this amp it would push out about 100 watts at half the ohms...

    At half the ohms means if you are running a 4 ohm sub then make sure it can handle 2 ohms becuase that is what the amp will be running with the 2 bridged channels....




  9. #9
    SliderX's Avatar
    SliderX is offline Member



    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    53
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quoted
    0 Post(s)

    Re: Question about ohms and bridging...

    You wouldn't be able to run 2 4ohm subs to that amp bridged because it doesn't support 2ohm bridged, I mean you could do it but it's not recommended. You won't be able to get more than 200x2 unless you get different subs.

    You're getting the ohms wrong, the ohm all depends on the wiring of the subs. The amp rating is for what wattage it will give with a sub wired up in that ohm.




Closed Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Question about ohms... please help...
    By Justinw303 in forum Subwoofers
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-02-2006, 09:48 PM
  2. amp-sub wiring question
    By Mercureie in forum Wiring, Electrical and Installation Help
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-23-2002, 07:37 PM
  3. Help with bridging 425 HCCA Orion amp...
    By F150Matt in forum Amplifiers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-27-2002, 01:36 PM
  4. Help choosing Amp for Sub
    By IamCanadian in forum Wiring, Electrical and Installation Help
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-05-2002, 05:02 PM
  5. ohms, watts, bridging, confused?????
    By Unregistered in forum Wiring, Electrical and Installation Help
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-31-2002, 06:00 PM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may post attachments
  • You may edit your posts
1e2 Forum