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    Need help with front stage

    Alright guys I need your expertise one more time trying to set up a decent 3 Way active front stage but I have never done this before and want to make sure I buy the right shift the first time I will try to post as many details as I can hear if you need anything else just ask and just so you guys don't think that I'm being lazy and trying to have you do all the work for me the past couple nights I have looked through the Forum pretty hard and read just about every thread I could find that mentioned front stages or three-way setups front to back got a lot of good knowledge but not really the details that I'm looking for or recommendations on speakers in my price range but that is how I found out about the ones I listed below and I did a little tiny bit of Google searching but Google has already misled me on this build a couple of times and I I am just over trusting random *** holes on the internet when I know I can trust you guys I know this post is crazy long but please bear with me I am desperate to get this build done


    What I have

    A 98 Yukon I will be running to zv4 15 on roughly 3.5k each before rise I already have a JVC KD x350bts which is three-way capable and has time alignment and all that good stuff I also have a Rockford Fosgate Punch 700x a crossfire Tek 35.4 and a Orion Cobalt 465 old school not sure if these amps are capable of running 3-way active but I think that the punch and Cobalt are will have to look into that

    What I want

    A front stage that can keep up with the subs and sound good doing it but I am not trying to win any sound quality Awards or have the best of the best I just wanted to sound good for everybody in the car including those in the back seat I also want to keep this as cheap as possible I have already spent way way more then I really wanted to and the higher the cost the longer it's going to take to get it done

    What I need

    I need to figure out the cheapest drivers that will get the job done and where the best place to put them in the vehicle is I can definitely afford some crescendo pwx midbass drivers and that is probably what I will roll with for midbass but I still need to figure out mid-range and tweeters hopefully 1 8 per door will be enough to do what I'm trying to do if you guys think I need to step it up to 1 10 per door or two 6.5 or whatever just let me know I don't think I can afford the prv Neo midranges but if it is going to save time and effort or buying multiples of others maybe I could try to swing it but I was initially thinking of putting midbass in the doors mid-range in the kicks and tweets either in the sail panel or the a-pillars but I could possibly also build a small console box for the mid-range and aim them up at the front driver and passenger which honestly might be better than buying the expensive kick panels I was looking around last night and saw the prv 4 inch midrange driver and thought it looked pretty **** good just not sure if 1 per side would be enough for tweeters I was going to roll with the crescendo silk domes but they don't seem to carry them on Sound Solutions audio anymore not sure if they're discontinued or what but I can definitely order from other places as long as they're reputable or would even be willing to buy used as long as it's from a solid member here and I definitely have nothing against crapping all these ideas and rolling with Parts Express woofers if you guys can point me in the right direction


    What I can do

    I can build almost anything out of wood that we can imagine also can fabricate metal to an extent can cut larger holes in the doors or anything along those lines

    What I can't do

    I have never fiberglassed anything in my life or even messed with it at all I do not have access to CNC machines or anything like that and I definitely definitely cannot drop a ton of cash on this front stage if I could get it all together for less than a couple hundred bucks that would be super ideal not sure how realistic that is though if I have to buy the kick panels I know they are a couple hundred by theirselves so there is flex on the budget but definitely not a lot



    Thank you guys in advance for anyone who takes the time to help out with this a few other random details I already have a bunch of coaxials and a component set or two laying around here but the components are mostly cheap bottom-of-the-barrel stuff I do have some nice JL coaxials and a pair of focal six by nines that are really nice to if rear fill is needed those could possibly be used both or one or the other I would like to use the amps I already have and if upgrades are needed that could be done down the road but if they are unusable then it is what it is anyways thanks again guys you all have got me this far let's see if we can get this finished up







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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Bump come on guys I know it's a lot to read but I'm just trying to lay it out for you the best I can I really could use some opinions at least on what speakers to get so I can start getting my money together don't want to pull the truck in the garage and tear it apart until I have a few more things rounded up cuz I need it for my daily driver




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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffro83 View Post
    Bump come on guys I know it's a lot to read but I'm just trying to lay it out for you the best I can I really could use some opinions at least on what speakers to get so I can start getting my money together don't want to pull the truck in the garage and tear it apart until I have a few more things rounded up cuz I need it for my daily driver
    You really cant do a 3 way active front. Just get some crescendo UNs for your stock location the bigger you can make it, the better. and some silk tweeters, you can only do a 2 way active front with your head unit. Fully treat your door and get a lot of power

    Center console box is horrible and will kill every bit of soundstage you would have gotten. Only do that if you want loud and obnoxious.



    09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k
    Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS................................Mids/Highs amp: CT 500.2, ppi 600.2, ppi 900.4 bridged
    Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.
    320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffdachef View Post
    You really cant do a 3 way active front. Just get some crescendo UNs for your stock location the bigger you can make it, the better. and some silk tweeters, you can only do a 2 way active front with your head unit. Fully treat your door and get a lot of power

    Center console box is horrible and will kill every bit of soundstage you would have gotten. Only do that if you want loud and obnoxious.
    Thanks for the reply bro I am glad you said that cuz I had no idea that this head unit wasn't three-way capable I really thought it was identical to the 340 BTS but I guess I really don't need a three-way front stage either I just want Strong Mid Bass and for it to be loud and clean definitely plan on doing proper door treatments going to fill all the holes with sheet metal and then deaden it with Noiqco and closed cell foam just out of curiosity is there a reason you recommend to the un's over the PWX's is it because I have to do a 2-way instead of a 3-way if a three-way would be much better I could probably return the 350 BTS and get a different head unit but honestly two-way would probably be so much better than what I'm used to and it's not like this is the last system I'm ever going to have also that's good to know about the center console box but what I was thinking wasn't Trulia center console box I was thinking build a wall straight down underneath the radio from the floorboard up to the bottom of the dash and put the speakers on access one for the driver and one for the passenger is that still a pretty bad idea




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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffro83 View Post
    Thanks for the reply bro I am glad you said that cuz I had no idea that this head unit wasn't three-way capable I really thought it was identical to the 340 BTS but I guess I really don't need a three-way front stage either I just want Strong Mid Bass and for it to be loud and clean definitely plan on doing proper door treatments going to fill all the holes with sheet metal and then deaden it with Noiqco and closed cell foam just out of curiosity is there a reason you recommend to the un's over the PWX's is it because I have to do a 2-way instead of a 3-way if a three-way would be much better I could probably return the 350 BTS and get a different head unit but honestly two-way would probably be so much better than what I'm used to and it's not like this is the last system I'm ever going to have also that's good to know about the center console box but what I was thinking wasn't Trulia center console box I was thinking build a wall straight down underneath the radio from the floorboard up to the bottom of the dash and put the speakers on access one for the driver and one for the passenger is that still a pretty bad idea
    Your head unit is 3 way network capable which means mid, low and high. While the only head unit that allows for a 3 way active front stage plus subwoofer is the 1000 dollar 99prs which is 4 way network capable which is low, midbass, midrange and high.... After that would be DSPs with 8 channels of output. As long as you do your deadening and having A LOT of power for your mids and highs like literally double the RMS rating for every mid/tweeter you have. Along with fitting the biggest mid you can fit, you'll be fine doing a 2 way.

    I recommend the UNs over the PWX in your case because pwx is more for pure midbass driver, It's upper midrange capabilities is not good. The UNs are a full package and is much louder overall however its sacrifices some midbass to achieve that but in a deadened door with a lot of power, liked 300-500 watts to each mid, you'll have plenty of midbass still.



    09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k
    Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS................................Mids/Highs amp: CT 500.2, ppi 600.2, ppi 900.4 bridged
    Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.
    320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffdachef View Post
    Your head unit is 3 way network capable which means mid, low and high. While the only head unit that allows for a 3 way active front stage plus subwoofer is the 1000 dollar 99prs which is 4 way network capable which is low, midbass, midrange and high.... After that would be DSPs with 8 channels of output. As long as you do your deadening and having A LOT of power for your mids and highs like literally double the RMS rating for every mid/tweeter you have. Along with fitting the biggest mid you can fit, you'll be fine doing a 2 way.

    I recommend the UNs over the PWX in your case because pwx is more for pure midbass driver, It's upper midrange capabilities is not good. The UNs are a full package and is much louder overall however its sacrifices some midbass to achieve that but in a deadened door with a lot of power, liked 300-500 watts to each mid, you'll have plenty of midbass still.
    Thanks again man that actually cleared s*** up a bunch I was sitting here looking through the manual right before you replied and couldn't make sense of it but now that you said that it makes a lot more sense at first I was a little disappointed but now I'm actually a little relieved this really clears things up and simplifies it a lot most likely I will grab the UN 8 but once I tear the doors apart if I I'm feeling a little crazy I might go for the tens do you think that one eight her door and two tweeters will be enough to keep up with two zv4 15 or is that wishful thinking and I should just start preparing myself for two eights and four tweeters




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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffro83 View Post
    Thanks again man that actually cleared s*** up a bunch I was sitting here looking through the manual right before you replied and couldn't make sense of it but now that you said that it makes a lot more sense at first I was a little disappointed but now I'm actually a little relieved this really clears things up and simplifies it a lot most likely I will grab the UN 8 but once I tear the doors apart if I I'm feeling a little crazy I might go for the tens do you think that one eight her door and two tweeters will be enough to keep up with two zv4 15 or is that wishful thinking and I should just start preparing myself for two eights and four tweeters
    one 8 on each door on 300-500 watts would easily keep up to mid 150s. You also dont want a lot of tweeters, It literally kills the soundstage and cause reflection issues for minimal output gain because you are splitting the power.

    I'd get two soundstream 900.4s bridge both you can get 450 watts to each mid and 450 watts to each tweeter. Should be plenty for your sub stage. Look for tweeters that have a sensitivity rating 92 db and above.



    09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k
    Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS................................Mids/Highs amp: CT 500.2, ppi 600.2, ppi 900.4 bridged
    Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.
    320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffdachef View Post
    one 8 on each door on 300-500 watts would easily keep up to mid 150s. You also dont want a lot of tweeters, It literally kills the soundstage and cause reflection issues for minimal output gain because you are splitting the power.

    I'd get two soundstream 900.4s bridge both you can get 450 watts to each mid and 450 watts to each tweeter. Should be plenty for your sub stage. Look for tweeters that have a sensitivity rating 92 db and above.
    Man that is good news that will save a ton of cash that can go towards other things you have laid this out for me perfectly and saved me a shitload of trial and error I know I have heard you say at least probably 20 times that rear speakers are a waste and can screw up your Sound Stage unless you have a large vehicle I know my truck is not the largest but it is on the bigger side and I do have people in the back sometimes do you think it would be worth it to throw some of these coaxials I have laying around in the back doors or will the front stage be plenty for the rear passengers as well




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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffro83 View Post
    Man that is good news that will save a ton of cash that can go towards other things you have laid this out for me perfectly and saved me a shitload of trial and error I know I have heard you say at least probably 20 times that rear speakers are a waste and can screw up your Sound Stage unless you have a large vehicle I know my truck is not the largest but it is on the bigger side and I do have people in the back sometimes do you think it would be worth it to throw some of these coaxials I have laying around in the back doors or will the front stage be plenty for the rear passengers as well
    You just do the same active setup but with 8 ohm version of the identical mids and tweets on the front and rear door Its just a stereo 2.1 setup.

    on one of the 900.4 bridged, you have the mids wired parallel. Front left and rear left passenger mid on channel 1/2 bridge as left side, Front right and rear right on channel 3/4 bridged as the left side. Same concept with the tweeter. You'll be doing time alignment with just the front in mind.

    Its still a 2 way active setup but it encompases the whole vehicle as a 3 way network with low, mid, high. Rather than seperating it into front and rear. This is what I would recommend for anyone with a big car. Having rear coaxials literally do nothing other than taking up precious amplifier power and RCA output for signal and literally does nothing on head unit power when the front will completely drown out the coaxials.

    Vs just having your vehicle turn into a giant active front stage. Its not ideal for soundstage but its actually tuneable since you sit up front and the front speakers will be louder purely due to proximity aaand you are mainly looking for loud and clean with decent sq, not award wining SQ so you'll still be plenty happy.



    09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k
    Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS................................Mids/Highs amp: CT 500.2, ppi 600.2, ppi 900.4 bridged
    Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.
    320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffdachef View Post
    You just do the same active setup but with 8 ohm version of the identical mids and tweets on the front and rear door Its just a stereo 2.1 setup.

    on one of the 900.4 bridged, you have the mids wired parallel. Front left and rear left passenger mid on channel 1/2 bridge as left side, Front right and rear right on channel 3/4 bridged as the left side. Same concept with the tweeter. You'll be doing time alignment with just the front in mind.

    Its still a 2 way active setup but it encompases the whole vehicle as a 3 way network with low, mid, high. Rather than seperating it into front and rear. This is what I would recommend for anyone with a big car. Having rear coaxials literally do nothing other than taking up precious amplifier power and RCA output for signal and literally does nothing on head unit power when the front will completely drown out the coaxials.
    Sweet man I think I understand pretty well now what I need to do might take a sec to come up with 400 bones to drop on the mids but I know in the end it will be well worth it I have seen you help so many people with their front stage and everyone always reports back but they are more than happy so I definitely trust your word as the authority on the matter and if that is what you would do that is **** well sure what I am going to do once again I appreciate you taking the time to help me out seriously can't thank you enough I know I could have put some s*** together before I joined to form but now with you guys having my back I feel like this will be light years ahead of anything that anybody else in my neck of the woods has ever heard unless they've been to slamology of course which I am hoping and praying to have this done in time to make it there this year that's about the only show I know of in Indy and it only comes once a year kind of like bass head Christmas




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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Yeah, your car will be pretty effing loud with 225 watts to each mid and tweeter. Would still keep up even if you break 155 dbs. If you are only at 150 db and below, it might drown out your sub stage lol.



    09 Sienna Subs : Four Team Ascendant 18s......Sub amp: Two Taramps 15k
    Headunit: Pioneer 80PRS................................Mids/Highs amp: CT 500.2, ppi 600.2, ppi 900.4 bridged
    Front stage: Two PWX 10s per door midbass only....... PRV 6MR500 midrange....... Massive CT 2 german tweeters.
    320 amp Singer alt....... 1 group 34 under the hood 6 group31 agms in the back 560 amp hours total.

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    Re: Need help with front stage

    That's okay I will definitely not be mad if I have to buy more subs and amps I never really used to get into mids and highs like that but now that I am it's definitely starting to hook me to but the low end will always be my favorite




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    Re: Need help with front stage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffro83 View Post
    That's okay I will definitely not be mad if I have to buy more subs and amps I never really used to get into mids and highs like that but now that I am it's definitely starting to hook me to but the low end will always be my favorite
    Jeff is totally right. He knowa what he is talking about. I have some crescendo ultra neo 6.5 and theh get ******* loud. I had them in 125 watts and they got louder than 4 6x9s that my buddy had. Got so loud to the point I couldnt handle them.




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