I'm not going to take sides as I was not involved. However, as a seller I try and provide all information possible when I make a post. If there is somethin minor and I leave it out, I be sure to include it when communicating with an interested individual. The seller is not obligated to state the condition of the amp, nor is this listed in the forum rules, however, it is nice to let the buyer know. The seller is not a scammer just because they don't state the description or pictures...especially when the buyer does not ask for them and sends payment. Nobody forced nbudros to send payment before finding out the condition of the amp and whatnot.
It is also up to the seller to make certain they get what they are paying for. This means asking for references, asking if there is any physical damage, if it is in full functional order, if there is anything whatsover wrong with the item, and if they would like to see more pictures and specific pictures of damages (if there are any physical ones).
Since nothing in the forum rules states that in the description, the condition of the item must be stated, Verlander is not responsible for nbudros' lack of questioning. Again, personally, I would have mentioned something even if the buyer doesn't but that is just me. Now if the forum rules stated a detailed description must be included in the for sale thread, then Verlander should be held accountable. It is nbudros' own fault he did not verify the condition, functionality, etc. Verlander tried to make things right as well, but nbudros seems to not want to comply with the insurance claim and whatnot. Regardless of the poor packaging or not, an insurance claim was being filed.
My point stands that both parties are responsible for their own actions. I dont agree with Verlander not describing the condition of the amp, but that is just a personal stance on the issue. I don't agree with nbudros demanding money back, but not complying and he is responsible for his own mistake. The amp got messed up during shipping, whatever, can't do anything about it, except for file the claim and let that process take its course. I just see people bickering back and forth yet it wont solve anything.
*EDIT: It's sad to see sellers going out their way and helping out the buyer to make things right and even go above and beyond and still get a bad rep. I've seen this happen several times on forums. It all boils down to the seller just being greedy and wanting their money back because they f*cked up.
Shyne Fitment Consulting, LLP. ...... More ass than class.
I have one final thing to say and I will end it with this.
WordNet - Cite This Source - Share This scammer
nouna person who swindles you by means of deception or fraud
The amp was clearly physically damaged prior to shipping. A UPS claim is invalid on this, unless the amp doesnt work upon install.
This photo you can clearly see that the mouting feet are bent, also you can see discoloration of the left corner leading me to believe that the corner was also damaged prior to shipping.
Deception by not fully diving detailed description of the amp. Whether or not the buyer asked, IMO is invalid. You should always describe your product.
Deception by making your carrier pay for your mistakes of non description and non packing
UPS is not responcible for this. Packaging was bad yes, but if the amp still works the seller still failed to describe the product.
Removal of the paypal claim in attempt to have seller refund the agreed upon amount also seems deceptive, when said refund has be flip floped back and forth as "I will pay" or "I wont pay". This rendered the buyer unable to attain any type of security that he will be repaid.
Finally, seeing that the amp was clearly damaged before shipping one would think since the buyer is unhappy he is entitled to a refund.
I feel that I have made my point. You can say that he never asked for details all you want. You both are at fault. Him for not asking and yourself for not providing to being with.
I think that should be added to the classified rules. Not only for the buyers sake, but also so sellers don't get into situations similar to this.
I never asked nbudros to drop the dispute, in fact i almost escalated it to a claim since he has no claim. I agreed to pay him $75. He is waffling and I'm removing myself from any involvement now.
I offered a full refund. The iceteebone.com refund policy states that item must be in possesion of Mr. Verlander before refund will be paid out. The customer doesn't make the refund policy.
Since you both have said you are done, any objection between you two to lock?
Nbudros was NOT a responsible buyer. Period.
He didn't ask for further photos, did not inquire on the condition, or anything of the sort. Period. Icetee sold him a DLS amplifier in perfect working condition.
It's not Icetee's fault that nfegdros hastily bought his product. The item was in fact NOT damaged in shipping, and all nfegdros is just whining try to get his money back without having to do anything.
Fact of the matter is, if you walked into a pawnshop/flea market/used parts store... where ALL SALES ARE FINAL... such as an online transaction on a car audio forum... and bought an amplifier without even looking at it... that's your own damn fault. The seller didn't misrepresent the item. Period.
You have NO leg to stand on in this argument, other than complaining about how IceTee will not SUCCUMB TO YOUR EVERY WHIM. I would NEVER either. He offered NUMEROUS solutions, and when your childish/immature little friend either refused/wouldn't answer/flamed instead... he moved on.
If you weren't BLINDED by the fact you've met the guy before... it's a simple situation to understand. Hell, I've never met either one. Never bought/sold with either one... and personally I don't really like IceTee at all... and I can easily see this situation for what it is.
nG - BSEE
Well got this PM from nbudros, shortly after he lost the refund on the DLS
Well i get the 9887 yesterday, install it today and guess what? The deck plays CD's fine. Spent over a half hour playing CD's, no clicking, no problems whatsoever. The faceplate on the deck is jacked up. You have to push the button and pull it down by hand and hope it doesn't fall off. I sent him his refund, so in the end, I'm left with a broken headunit, that got busted in his possession.Originally Posted by nbudros
Anybody in Northern Michigan is welcome to stop by with their CD's. Now I cannot turn around and sell it for the same price I sold it to nbudros, because the faceplate is screwed up. My personal opinion is, he broke the faceplate, and coned me out of a refund.
It should also be noted, that there was no bubble wrap, peanuts etc. in his packaging. It was the headunit inside the Alpine box, and then placed inside a larger box with no packaging, free to bounce around. After this whole ordeal, I was expecting bubble wrap, peanuts etc. He was cheaper on packaging then me