Ethical traders Vs Scamming pondscum traders

[bimma85]

ss3079~ Thanks for moving this to an apprpriate place.


Bimma,
You're always such a naysayer when anything touching on this topic comes up. Why is that? Have you been burned incredibly bad and consequently harbor some unresolved bitterness about online trading in general? I have made no claims that my thread contains the "Be All, End All" method of keeping yourself from getting scammed. It is, however, some common sense information that potentially hasn't occurred to some as of yet for various reasons. It is garnered from my own personal online experiences, a good bit of time spent on the eBay discussion boards, and a few other resources that serve me well in my goings-on day to day on the interweb.

Nothing you do will prove to be a perfect system and I am happy to both recognize and admit that. That doesn't mean since we cannot eliminate scammers altogether that we shouldn't make efforts to minimize their being successful as much as we possibly can ~ both on an individual basis as well as together as a group. It is to that latter end that my efforts in this thread are focused.

So, to respond to your post:

True and true. Let me reiterate ~ these tips are in no way meant to get rid of scamming altogether but if it in any way reduces the chances of it? Then I, for one, am all for it. Why wouldn't you be? Please don't come at me with that tired story about being an inconvenience for an honest seller. I've already trounced that soundly in the mud. An extra minute or two (literally) at the outside is no inconvenience if it helps you to make that sale. /story

Paranoia, in limited amounts, can serve a person well. In the inordinately large amounts with which you are apparently afflicted, however, it makes for a dismal existence. Everyone has to start somewhere, bimma. Once you had Zero feedback on eBay. Think back to that very first transaction on eBay ~ did the feedback you left for your trading partner become inconsequential because you had none yourself? That is lunacy, dude. You are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else. Mine is that your point of view in that regard is more than a bit silly.

Yes, dishonest things happen on eBay. They happen here. They happen everywhere. The underlying point is that the transactions that end positively far outweigh the number of bad deals here and elsewhere. The bad ones simply get better press because those are the ones that shouldn't have happened. In large part no one really pays any attention to those deals that conclude as they should have.

This bit I agree with completely.

If your grandma didn't tell you that at some point then she's among the minority of grandmothers, I'd say. And thank you. I know this isn't going to stop anything completely - but if anything I've said helps someone to keep from getting screwed even once then I have accomplished my goal. Maybe something I've posted will help someone, at least once, to having to learn the hard way.

Nope, it isn't. It only took me burning my hand once to learn not to reach up on the stove when that knob on the front of it was turned at an odd angle. Others take a few more times before they get it...

, not trying to say anything you said was wrong, just putting in my 2 cents by adding to it

I've gotten scammed on ebay for $40 from a power seller with 2k+ feedback. Also buying import dvds, before they were out here, cost me about $200. The others I had ordered previously made me about $1500, so oh well. Could give two shits about either incident.
Those are just my steps. I can get dam near anything I want wayyy cheaper in person than ebay anyways, so I don't buy much online now adays .
Yes, I'm way too paranoid......oh well. Buy 2 things for cheap and get scammed on the 3, doesnt make the other 2 that cheap. I just put what I do, no one has to listen or do anything they say....doesnt mean I still shouldnt say it
Foolish, think what you want. I'm not gonna get scammed by some 6 feedback having scammer(no i'm not saying e1 with 6 feedback is a scammer so dont go there)...period. I'd rather deal with people who sell more than just 1 item a year on line.
Everyone starts somewhere sure....they're just not gonna start their ebay history off with me(unless they're buying). If you think thats crazy....then so be it .
As for some of the rest, I said nice thread. Never said, that you said nor implied this would end all scamming etc

Just read some more, bitternesss towards online trading/sales. Since soon most of income will be from online sales....no I don't say I hold anything against it.
Just read more, where did I say a single thing about taking pics be annoying in my post? I DIDNT. You're reading into shit wayyyy too much. Did I say I have a perfect system, NO. I'll admit that to

on a side note, hope that makes sense...just woke up from a nap

[FoxPro5]

I have been thinking alot here of late about the scamming that has gotten such "Front & Center" attention recently on our forum.

Good stuff Prowler...thanks for putting that together. Joke ---> But for someone that is so well spoken I would think you would know the difference between alot and a lot <--- /joke.

[Prowler573]

not trying to say anything you said was wrong, just putting in my 2 cents by adding to it

I've gotten scammed on ebay for $40 from a power seller with 2k+ feedback. Also buying import dvds, before they were out here, cost me about $200. The others I had ordered previously made me about $1500, so oh well. Could give two shits about either incident.
Those are just my steps. I can get dam near anything I want wayyy cheaper in person than ebay anyways, so I don't buy much online now adays
Yes, I'm way too paranoid......oh well. Buy 2 things for cheap and get scammed on the 3, doesnt make the other 2 that cheap. I just put what I do, no one has to listen or do anything they say....doesnt mean I still shouldnt say it
Foolish, think what you want. I'm not gonna get scammed by some 6 feedback having scammer(no i'm not saying e1 with 6 feedback is a scammer so dont go there)...period. I'd rather deal with people who sell more than just 1 item a year on line.
Everyone starts somewhere sure....they're just not gonna start their ebay history off with me(unless they're buying). If you think thats crazy....then so be it
As for some of the rest, I said nice thread. Never said, that you said nor implied this would end all scamming etc

Just read some more, bitternesss towards online trading/sales. Since soon most of income will be from online sales....no I don't say I hold anything against it.

That explains much, my friend.

Just read more, where did I say a single thing about taking pics be annoying in my post? I DIDNT. You're reading into shit wayyyy too much. Did I say I have a perfect system, NO. I'll admit that to

In another thread wherein someone asked should pics be a requirement for any and all FS threads you and I were definitively on either side of the fence from one another where I believed it to be a worthwhile requirement and you felt it (a) would make no difference whatsoever and (b) was an unnecessary hardship on the seller. I figured you would bring those same arguments to bear here as well. Sorry for the mistaken assumption if that is the case.

Good stuff Prowler...thanks for putting that together. Joke ---> But for someone that is so well spoken I would think you would know the difference between alot and a lot <--- /joke.

Good catch. Corrections implemented.

[mtdewelf]

great tips, no scammage yet for me but i do sometimes forget to get a real good idea of what prices should be(kinda hard for my to figure out and don't want to make thread everytime i am in market for something).

[Prowler573]

great tips, no scammage yet for me but i do sometimes forget to get a real good idea of what prices should be(kinda hard for my to figure out and don't want to make thread everytime i am in market for something).

You have internet access obviously so it should not be difficult at all to have a look around and get a good feel of what fair market value is for something.

eBay is a great resource for this ~

Do a search on eBay but rather than looking for any given item and how many instances you can find that are available now use the Advanced Search features and look for the item in question in completed listings. eBay's search function will only show you those completed listings from the past 30 days but that will give you an idea of what other people found the item you are researching to have been worth for them over the last month. Eliminate those listings that went without a winning bidder and just take a quick average of the Final Item Values from those listings that did end with a winning bid.

Outside of that there are other places to look to be able to get a feel for what any certain item might be worth used but looking at what other people have been willing to pay on eBay over the last month is a great place to start.

[amorsh]

Great guidelines prowler!

Hopefully this will help cut down on some scamming here, which has been part of my downfall in buying from this forum as of lately.

Something smells wrong about it (either the price is too cheap, or the whole deal is suspicious to me), but sometimes those can be the really nice deals, that you catch before anyone else does too.

Good luck, and once again, great job of putting it all together.

[mtdewelf]

You have internet access obviously so it should not be difficult at all to have a look around and get a good feel of what failr market value is for something.

eBay is a great resource for this ~

i usually check ebay, but like my last amp(jl e2150) there weren't any listings for one on there. i figured out to start looking at the completed listings so now no prob.

[Prowler573]

Great guidelines prowler!

Hopefully this will help cut down on some scamming here, which has been part of my downfall in buying from this forum as of lately.

Something smells wrong about it (either the price is too cheap, or the whole deal is suspicious to me), but sometimes those can be the really nice deals, that you catch before anyone else does too.

Good luck, and once again, great job of putting it all together.

Thank you and thank you.

You're right. Sometimes you can fall upon something that is a really good deal that somehow it escaped the attention of the rest of the vultures but more often than not those deals get under the radar because of a listing error on the part of the seller. Like the item's title was spelled wrong. It was listed in the wrong category. There is little to no item description because the seller doesn't know what they have. Things like that which are pretty obvious which are the scams and which are flawed auctions b/c the seller is uninformed.

[snb778]

[QUOTE=zachzchw]
People dont read the stickys.......QUOTE]


have never read one

[Prowler573]

snb778, learn to close your tags properly, please. If you've never read one then by your own admission you're only here in this thread to post whore. Please see your way clear of continuing to do so or I will report the posts. It would appear ^^^^^ that I have moderator cooperation in keeping this thread clean. Thank you for understanding.

Would it be possible to maybe automatically stick this as a link in every for sale ad?
People dont read the stickys.......as an example, view the recent group buy thread- most people were unaware that group buys were not allowed.

Just an idea.

I don't know that I would agree to this having to be linked to in every FS thread. I might link to it in every one of my FS threads as I think it is worth reading and it is my thread. But requiring everyone else to link to it as well I cannot see as being reasonable.

Oh...and to no one reads the stickies? The viewcount vs. the actual posts would suggest otherwise. Besides...you were in here long enough to read then post. Are you PWing as well? As to the group buy thing it has been disallowed for longer than I have been registered here. It is only here of late that it has been strictly enforced, wouldn't you say?

[snb778]

I understand... Im not here to post ***** though. I honestly dont even know where the stickies are

sorry for the tag. Tried to delete part of a quote, i dunno how it did that. i thought I just deleted text.

[ConcernedMember]

I think we need an optional service when selling/buying. A middle man to hold the money with predetermined terms and conditions. Say for instance A is buying an amp from B for $300. B has been on the forum for a little while, but A is slightly concerned because he is putting up $300. B knows that he is a good man and true to his word, so he agrees with A to use the middle man service and pays a small fee (split by both parties). So before they use the service some guidelines are drawn out and the two agree to them. So finally B ships the amp to A and everything goes smooth. Middle man then sends B the money.

Scenario 2: There is a problem with shipping and B is making up excuses as to why the amp isn't there. A requests his money back and gets a full refund.

Scenario 3: The amp arrives to A and it is damaged. Because B provided pics of the amp before, the middle man follows the terms and conditions agreed upon

Scenario 4: The amp arrives to A and it does not work. Middle man follows terms and conditions agreed upon.


It would take sometime to get the system working properly where both individuals are 100% satisfied, but by researching all the possible problems with transactions in the past, I'm sure this service could cover just about every scenario that pops up.

[Prowler573]

I think it is an incredibly valid idea. In theory it sounds great, CM. Getting it implemented could prove problematic and getting both parties involved in any given trade to agree to a non-involved third party might be a bit of a task as well.

[mtdewelf]

GREAT plan but execution would be nearly impossible, not to mention that the seller could claim that merchandise was not damaged upon shipping and try to make middle man look like scammer. Also middle man could really cause some chaos if decides to go scammer. I mean King was somebuddy that before he went south might have been taken into consideration for middle man.

[Prowler573]

GREAT plan but execution would be nearly impossible, not to mention that the seller could claim that merchandise was not damaged upon shipping and try to make middle man look like scammer. Also middle man could really cause some chaos if decides to go scammer. I mean King was somebuddy that before he went south might have been taken into consideration for middle man.

The only way the middleman could become a scammer is if they do not send the money to the proper recipient. Outside of that the middleman would never actually take possession of or have access to the gear being sold. There would be no way to attribute fault for the item(s) being in less-than-advertised condition to the 3rd party.